185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
236. July 2024
We're back and talking hardcore:
1. Fav releases of 2024 so far
2. Newerish stuff: Invertebrates, Bootlicker
3. Old School: Shitlickers GBG 1982 7"
4. Scene Report: Boston, MA with Renée of Carrot Cake Zine
5. Interview: Beto (Dmize, 25 Ta Life, Madball)
Check the website for playlists, our links, and SMASH that Patreon button:
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We are on Substack writing about punk and hardcore:
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Get at me: 185milessouth@gmail.com
What's up, everyone? Before we get into it, I have some free tickets to give away. I have two sets of tickets to Saturday, July 20th at the Voodoo Room that is inside the House of Blues in San Diego. It's Death Lens, Strawberry Fuzz, Grave Secrets, and... Dude, show up early because the best band is playing first. It's Big Attitude, one of my favorite new bands out of San Diego. Handle business. You can shoot me an email, 185milesouth at gmail.com. First two people to email me with your full name. You get the tickets. So handle business 185 miles south at gmail.com. Death Lens, Strawberry Fuzz, Grave Secrets, and Big Attitude going down at the Voodoo Room in the House of Blues Saturday, July 20th, 2024. And let's get on with the show. 185milesouth.com
SPEAKER_09:Smash that Patreon
SPEAKER_03:button. 185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast so what's up everyone we are back and talking hardcore helping out you know him you love him it is the best dressed man of the pod it is daniel sant what's up dan
SPEAKER_01:this is how it feels to be lonely this is how it feels to be small
SPEAKER_03:well jesus i guess i'll just go stick my head in an oven huh
SPEAKER_01:you know just a little in spiral carpets for the for the squadron
SPEAKER_03:that's all right all right dude let's jump right into punk and hardcore uh we are at like the halfway mark for the year i wanted to do a quick check-in of the stuff that we have liked the most throughout the year so far. Dan, kick it off. What's your favorite stuff of 2024 so far?
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so just came up with like a small list. Like there is a lot of good stuff this year, but it is interesting that in the past we have talked about maybe this year isn't hitting as hard, but I don't know. Let's see. Let's see what the rest of 2024 has to offer. But my favorite so far, Dynamite, Blow the Bloody Doors Off EP. The Chisel, What a Fucking Nightmare LP. Lost Legion, Behind the Concrete Veil LP. Asbo, The Demo 2024. Neutrals, Newtown Dream LP. Split System, Volume 2 LP. Kriegsog, Love and Revenge LP. The Face the Pain Demo. The No Idols Demo. Ichras, oh god uh johannam bistana demo and uh bootlicker a thousand yard stare lp
SPEAKER_03:yeah you know i don't know if we could call it like this year isn't that great because i was thinking about that it's like how much good shit has to come out for you to consider it a good year and really it's like if you have something that you really like that comes out every other month that You're going to stick with listening to. That's a pretty good year. And we both have 11 things that we're calling out here. And there's plenty more. I didn't put the echo chamber on my list. I like that a lot. But yeah, let's get into it. We have four things that are the same. The split system volume 2 LP. The no idols. The demo from this year. The chisel. What a fucking nightmare LP. And then, dude, brand new. That ass bow demo 24 LP. Dude, that thing rips, and hopefully someone gets it on streaming soon. It's just ASBO, and it is on Bandcamp. Dude, handle business, people. Get it on streaming. Dude, this thing rips, dude. Plus, it's fun as hell to say ASBO. You know? What's
SPEAKER_01:up? Antisocial behavior order.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. So if you live in England, I guess you know what it means. But for the rest of us, it's just a sick-ass name. Aspo. All right. The other things I got, Bloodstains, the self-titled LP. And I did see that that just got a second press. So handle business people, get that. Also, I think that I saw Sorry State had some of the Euro version in their distro. So that thing sold quick. I was lucky I got a copy. Shout out to Bedge for grabbing one for me at the record release. But yeah, so Handle Business, get that. The Collateral, we still know 7-inch. Dude, for Roots Hardcore, about as good as it gets for this year. That Public Acid, Deadly Struggle LP, we talked in a bunch on the pod. Love this thing. The En La Muerte, self-titled 7-inch. I absolutely love this thing. We talked on the pod. Canal Irreal, hopefully I pronounced that right. Someone Else's Dance LP. We talked that last month with Chris on the episode, the Burning Lord Arcane Demolition LP. We talked that early in the year. Love that thing. Can't wait to get it in the mail. The Invertebrates Sick to Survive LP, we are going to talk this week on the pod. So yeah, that's it. Pretty good so far, dude. I don't know. That split system was so early in the year. I'm still jamming it. That collateral we still know is like one of the better Roots Hardcore records that's come out in the last few years. That Anlamuerte band, a band that's been around for under a year, put out like, I don't know, it's like a nine song, seven inch. Every single song rips. Like, dude, that's kind of all I need. You know, the chisel coming with a second really good LP. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. What do you think, Dan?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. I mean, what's really cool is everything that's on your list that's not on mine, I easily could have... It's just the next tier down for me. I like all that stuff so much. The one that we've never even mentioned, I don't think, on the pod is The Neutrals. That band is from Oakland, and they're like a... almost like the television personalities if they were on Sarah Records and were a punk band in 1976. I don't know. They're really great. But that split system, God, that is just... I just keep going back to it.
SPEAKER_03:It's so good, dude. It's so good. Also, that Kriegshog record that you called out, that thing kicks so much ass. And we never got around to talking to it. Although, I gotta say, dude, that first riff... on the last song of that record might win Riff of the Year. So I haven't heard anything that's gotten close to it. So yeah, that's going to be definitely in the running. We will see when we send off that voting sheet to the elites, the 185 elites, what they decide. Let's jump in to the new stuff. Before we get going, just wanted to run through some shout-outs of newer stuff. Of course, that Ass Bo demo that we've been talking about. It's pronounced Ass Bo. Asbo. Hey, it's Asbo to me, dude.
SPEAKER_01:I know. I know that's why you just keep randomly texting it. Asbo.
SPEAKER_03:I fucking love it, dude. They're my favorite band. All right. Shout out to Intercom. This is a San Diego hardcore band. They just put out an EP, The Sound of Self-Destruction. It's out digitally now. The 7-0 show will be out on Under the Gun Records soon. The Dudes from Ventura County, Charman, 805 Scene Vets. They just put out another LP. I believe it's the third LP, Down Unready. It is out digitally, and hopefully there's vinyl soon because I love this thing. I like Charmin song by song, but what I really like is listening to the whole record on vinyl at my pad. So you know I'm going to be one of those first 10 orders when that hits. The band Affliction, this is the 805 Straight Edge band. Dan, time for you to check it out. uh they put out an ep i believe it's digital only unending conflict so i handle business people although you know what dude the bad thing about having your band name affliction there's no way i'm wearing a fucking shirt you know what
SPEAKER_01:i mean they should lean into that it should be all like straight edge filigree and and fleur de lis with x's
SPEAKER_03:that's right it's like just bust out the The most douchebag MMA shirts ever for your band. So what are you going to do? Also, Tarina. Dude, this is very Oxnard heavy. What's up? Tarina just put out a new song called False Compassion. It goes hard as fuck. And I cannot wait for the new record on Days. By the time this airs, they will have smashed it. I sound in fury, so I handle business. Get on that Tarina bandwagon. You know what's up. All right, there's a band called Problems. They put out an EP called Beg for Release. They're out of Oslo, Norway. It is on Adult Crash Records, which I believe is out of Denmark. Not sure. Dude, someone give this in your US distro. I would like to purchase it, please. Okay, there's a band called The Massacred. They put out an EP called Death March. It's their second 7-inch. It came out on Active 8 Records. It is not streaming anywhere. There's a Two songs on YouTube. Dude, this thing is so good. And I don't know what kind of bullshit marketing scheme that is to just put two songs on YouTube and not have it on Bandcamp. But it fucking worked. And I ordered the thing. So what's up? But can we get the whole thing on streaming? What the fuck is going on here? I
SPEAKER_01:got to say, you know it must be great if you are going to YouTube to check this out.
SPEAKER_03:I know. I've listened to it like five times on YouTube, like the two songs. It's like, can I get the rest of it? You know what I mean? So it rips. It rips, like, really hard. And I'd never heard of them before. The previous 7-inch, I found it, and I enjoy it, too. But these two new songs, god damn. What's up? All right. Finally, this is a Rob Moran find. A band called Hellscape out of the UK. They just put out a self-titled 7-inch on Advanced Perspective. And actually, the 7-inch came out on a different label, but... Advanced Perspective has it in their US distro. So if you check that out, if you like it, you can get it through Advanced Perspective if you live in the States. And otherwise, Healthscape, self-titled, look it up. I think it came out in the UK, so get it there if you live abroad. And everyone, 185milesouth.com, click that playlist link at the top of the page or just find us on Spotify. There's a playlist for every episode. You can check out the stuff we talk about, so you don't got to rewind and try to write it down real quick or whatever. Okay, let's get into it. Dan, the first thing I want to talk about is the Invertebrates Sick to Survive LP. It came out on Beach Impediment in May of 2024. And it finally got up on Spotify. So we're going to talk about it because, you know, at some point we're probably gonna have to break that rule. a lot of people listen to this podcast that, you know, they casually dabble in this music now. And, you know, a lot of the stuff that they listen to, they get the Rex from us, you know, and I just, I like to have it easy for everyone to be able to just check out the stuff we talk about, you know, instead of like, all right, we talked about this, but you got to hunt it down on YouTube. And we talked about this, but it's only on band camp. We talked about this. You got to find one of your pirate friends to download it for you on soul seek. And this one's on Spotify. And this one's on Apple music. The shit is fucking annoying. You know what I mean? Like, spotify blows overall you know like they got us right we're renting music it's fucking obscene but dude it's just easy right so like for people that don't have a have a ton of time to like you know curate a musical library and then like load it onto their phone or their old ass ipod it's just nice so uh yeah it's just a little service we do for the people for the 185 people what's up okay let's get into it dan what were your thoughts on this thing
SPEAKER_01:this thing is it rips right out the gate like absolutely crushes but with more listens it gets better and better and better so this is like a band that is doing like roots esque what lane would you say this hardcore is in just straight up hardcore with flourishes I would say like fast hardcore flourishes.
SPEAKER_03:It's 1984 US hardcore, but it's like through a modern lens. So you're going to compare it to like the direct controls, the government warnings, like the bands like that, right?
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely. And so when I say with flourishes, I'm saying like the guitar players are doing very tuneful or almost like solo-y things just to really elevate the riff. where the riff would be like just a very good, amazing, straightforward, like Zach says, 84 style hardcore riff. That's blistering pace. Like it is so fast. The drummer is exceptional. And the way the drums are recorded are exceptional too. The recording in general is amazing. The thing where this band is with all the flourishes, the vocalist is giving you like straight over the plate, a hundred mile an hour fastball, like just the perfect, like you can't fuck with it because it's a hundred miles an hour, but it is just straightforward delivery in such a great way that it's not, it's not boring and it is not so wacky that it's pulling you in another direction. Sometimes that's great because that's what adds a lot of character, but this is just like, these are the perfect way to sing over this fast songs
SPEAKER_03:you know and his voice is great dude he sounds like ian he straight up does like originally i was like okay like it just sounded like a normal hardcore voice and the more and more i listened to it it's like dude he sounds like fucking ian like when it's all the way like the vocal cords stretched you know what i mean and he doesn't have like the dynamics he doesn't go like soft aloud like ian does obviously ian mckay one of the best hardcore singers of all time. Right. This, this, this dude's doing Ian on 10 the whole time. And it sounds ridiculous to say it, you know, you don't want to get compared to like one of the goats, but like, dude, when I go into my bullshit, take a quick listen and you can come back in and tell me if I'm smoking crack.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Well, I, I, I feel like now that you say that, I, I would say like a part of Ian going like, did you fucking get it? Like that kind of. Yes. When
SPEAKER_03:Ian's all the way on 10. Right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Like that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Yeah. I mean, I will re-listen with that as a lens. But, I mean, there are some incredible songs. It starts out with that No More. Just so good. Well, I mean, it's really hard to pick anything out. The song Shit Pit with the riff on that song being so... almost, would you say like DK? Totally. I don't know. And the song bastardized it's just so catchy. It's just so catchy. Like for being such the word bastardized being screamed, like gets under your skin and you're like, like just singing along. It's great. It's a fantastic LP.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. I ordered it. I think it's great. I'm so glad it's on streaming for everyone now. But yeah, so the first thing that I thought of when I started listening to it was, okay, this is so good. It's roots hardcore. It's modern. So your brain just goes to, like I said, the direct controls, the government warnings, that era and genre of band. But there's two things. First of all, the riffing reminds me a lot of that last Totalitar record, which kind of sounds weird to say, but the left hand is very savage. And then... I just started thinking like, so some of these dudes are also in that Public Acid band. And I was like, you know what? Half these songs just sound like they could be Public Acid songs, but just instead of having that super savage sound, like that HM2 sounding sound, they're just playing through a fucking Marshall stack. Dude, it's true. Like if you listen to like Lost Illusion, Sterilized Decay or Bastardized, like Those are public acid ass riffs. If you just shoot it through an HM2, it's a public acid song. And in my opinion, that's a good thing. It's showing that a great hardcore song is in the song. It's not in the recording. And so different bands can make different production and sonic choices to how they want to present their band. But if you don't have the fucking songs... Your band sucks. You know what I mean? And these dudes have now done it like in this band, like a fully stripped down roots hardcore band and in a burly ass true punks band. But yeah, Dan, you called out the drumming. It is so exceptional. You know what I mean? And you have to have it, right? In a roots hardcore band. And I love when the dude goes from... like the open hi-hat to the closed hi-hat like he does it on that laughing system song like halfway through he also does it on the intro of climb the ranks when he's doing that closed hi-hat because he's such a good drummer the song just sounds so fast in that like early early 80s way that like never got replicated because for whatever reason like the way that they recorded the hi-hat in the early 80s is just fucking magical you know I mean it's touched by the hands of the gods you know and then like it's At some point recordings changed and like the hi-hat never sounded so magical again. The last thing I want to say on this is Dan talked about shit pit having like that kind of DK, that short intro dead Kennedy's ass intro at the end of baited breath and humid crypt. They do some kind of like post-punk death rock sounding like guitar hooks. And it is so good when they mix that into like this style and And like, I really think if they could somehow tuck more of that shit in on the next record, but still like maintain this level of intensity, you'd be looking at like an all time Ruth's hardcore record, like all time, all time. So that's how much I love this thing. And yeah. Any final thoughts, Dan?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That's kind of just what I was talking about. The flourishes, like the unexpected left turn riffs that you, are going at the end of these or they'll just be a little add-on you know to to a riff and it's just it's just really great because it it takes you you know it's it just gives you something more it shows creativity it's a great lp definitely check it out
SPEAKER_03:hell yeah okay let's go into the next one we're going to talk about we're going to talk Bootlicker, Thousand Yard Stare came out on Neon Taste Records in May of 2024. Danny chose this one. Get into it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so Canada's single coil stompers are back. We loved their LP before this. It's given you that. When we talk about single coil, it's so it's not like, chunky, chunky guitar, but it is more on the high end, really ramped up, where the marshmallow is almost falling off the stick in the treble world, but it's not quite. And the way that this band does it perfectly by matching that, imagine if someone in the Saints was just kicked in the head by Vinny Stigma and just started playing that style of guitar, but riffing like that. But the way that this band balances it so good is that the rhythm section is just so stompy and so almost oi throughout. So good. And the vocals are really just perfectly in the mix. A lot of the time, I think one of our critiques of this LP before this is that the vocal was too buried. I think we said that for the first LP, and it's an opinion that I hold a little bit, whereas I feel they're really good in this, and they're delivered in such an almost discharged way, like lyrically and delivery, because they're not all over the song all the time, and they're just... The punctuation points with the just simplicity of the, like, take the first song, for example. Like it ends with, you are state property. It just punctuates perfectly. The third song, Cannon Fodder, also gives you those vibes. And I believe they've done Submission Part 1, Submission Part 2, and they closed this record with Submission Part 3, and it is such a banger. And what I love, like with both the Invertebrates and the Bootlicker LP, these two records are not just front loaded. Like sometimes when we're reviewing modern hardcore LPs, especially in the streaming age, like bands will kind of like, oh, well, these are our four best songs. Let's just have them at the front of the record. I like that. Both these records have really good flow throughout. The song Billionaire Bunker into that song Red Surge. Obviously, I'm only listening to this on streaming, so I don't know if those are either sides of the record or not, but they go really well together. I really like the way this band approaches doing... like hardcore because punk is so at the root of what this band is putting forward but they're playing absolutely stomping fast as hell and great hardcore so it's like giving me everything i want
SPEAKER_03:it's interesting they called you called out discharge because the backbone of this band is they're a db band you know but like they're a they're a unique take on it it's like db meets uk82 And with an interesting tone, right? So first off, before I get into this, I just want to say this band kicks ass, right? And generally, that's all I look for in a band, you know? And they did it again. They put out another 12-inch. The whole thing kicks ass. They don't ever take the pedal off the metal on this at all. So I don't know. That's like a real accomplishment, you know? Another 12-inch that just straight rips. But comparing this one to the last one, which is maybe not fair, but it's just kind of what we do. The last one was so unique in the recording because Dan talked about the single coil guitar. And what we're describing is it's just a guitar with very little distortion on it. It's kind of twangy. But then behind that is this heavy-ass bass that's very distorted. And that... The juxtaposition of those two different sounds was very unique, especially because they sounded so far apart. You could kind of pick them out from each other if you listened closely. On this record, everything sounds very compressed, so it's different. It's not a bad thing. Like Dan said, maybe the vocals are mixed better on this record. Maybe everything's mixed better on this record. Maybe the mix is... so sick that like that's kind of why you get so much compression but that bass in the guitar they kind of got compressed into sounding like just a fuzzy guitar you know which again is cool i like fuzzy guitar but it kind of lost a little bit of that uniqueness the last record had but yeah kicks ass the other thing is this band is pretty monotone which again leads to them kicking ass right the whole way through like it's just is kind of an ass beater the whole way through. But in a monotone band, you kind of rely on having the mid-tempo bangers. And going back to other D-beat stuff, when we talk about Discharge, it's like they're known for the D-beat songs, but it kind of seems like every time we have to choose the best Discharge songs, we're always choosing the mid-tempo ones, right? Because they stand out. They're like the mid-tempo bangers that cut up the records. And if you think about the last Bootlegger record, there was, I believe there was three. mid-tempo bangers on that. And they were kind of dispersed throughout the record. On this one, I think just song number one and five are mid-tempo bangers. So I love, Dan, that you called out the sixth and seventh song as your favorite run. And then also that you called out the last song on the record. Because to my ears, this is kind of front-loaded in the way that mid-tempo banger in the one and five slots. So those first five songs flow together more for me than Yeah. Yeah. you know what I mean? Every song is like dragging you over the coals, like giving it to you. Right. But like, you know, it doesn't have those highs and lows. And like, if they just tucked in like a couple choruses that were like trying to be like the partisans, you know, or if they tucked in like a couple little guitar leads that sounded like criminal damage, like then you're talking, you know, one of my favorite bands, you know what I mean? But otherwise this is like just a band that they're going to play a ripping set. You want to drink beer and slam and like, fuck, that's what I was looking for for a lot of my life. You know what I mean? But it's not something that I'm looking to necessarily put on the turntable right now.
SPEAKER_01:Well, those are completely valid critiques because in my little notes here, I have, but where are the true stomping mid-tempo bangers? That is something that the last LP, and the other thing that you brought up that I didn't really think of because I just enjoyed this in its own right, I do miss the twang. The almost like fucking country-esque twang that the guitar had, which made it so unique on the first one. This one is just like revved up so high. So it is still a very... unique guitar sound but yeah you bringing that back up that's really what set that um first LP aside was that it wasn't as revved up as this and it it was still aggressive
SPEAKER_03:Dan I think what that is is just on the last record it's not as compressed so the bass and the guitar there's a gap between them you know and on this one they're kind of like sucked together so it they don't have the two unique tones. It's harder to differentiate on this one where the bass ends and where the guitar begins. It's kind of sucked into one sound that you're getting hit with.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Or they could have just even used a different amp. They could have been just using one of those tiny little square vintage amps on the last one that was just giving the guitar so much more thing. And if they're using something a little bit beefier this time, it's just blending into the bass now.
SPEAKER_03:Big and beefy, dude. Respect.
SPEAKER_01:These minor critiques aside, it is still an absolute killer LP.
SPEAKER_03:Dan did say that he almost killed himself by moshing into the shower while this was playing. So there's that. All right, we are going old school. We are going to talk the shit lickers out of Gothenburg, Sweden. They're 7-inch from 1982, titled GBG 1982. They put it out themselves, as any self-respecting hardcore band does. And I'm going to set myself up to get crucified, and I'm going to talk a little bit about the history of Swedish punk and hardcore. And... A lot of people that love international hardcore are some snobby ass motherfuckers. So if I get something wrong, blame Staffan. It is what it is. All right. In the 1970s, of course, Sweden had punk bands like everyone else, right? Like punk blew up. There were punk bands everywhere. You know what I mean? And a few of the bigger ones that I called out, and I'm going to pronounce these all wrong, so whatever. But there was a band called Ebba Grön, and they sounded like a 77 style meets New York Dolls. You had another one called KSBM. Their LP was very strange. You know, some of it is 77 punk. Some of it is like straight up rock and roll. And then, dude, there's a song on there that's like a straight piano lounge song. So, you know, in the 70s, like punk was weird, dude. You know, sometimes it was straightforward and ripping and sometimes like they went off on weird tangents, right? And so you get a lot of that. There's a lot of bang for your buck on the KSBM record. There's also a band called Mass Media and they sounded like very typical like 70s killed by death style lo-fi punk and the reason why i want to call them out is because they break up in 1980 and then a couple of those dudes in 1981 start a band called the head cleaners actually it's head cleaners i think there's no the it's just hard to say head cleaners anyway head cleaners they put out a ripping 7-inch in 1981 that's like just straight up stripped down 1981 hardcore like if you played it back to back with soa it's not that different. And so I think that they're a perfect example of kind of that changing of the tide from that original punk stuff to when hardcore just kind of takes over the world in 81. You got to remember discharge did a bunch of seven inches, did a few seven inches in 1980 GBH does their first EP in 1980, I believe. And then, you know, you have the teen idols in the U S and stuff's taken off circle jerks, bad brains. Let's go. You know what I mean? So here is that band. Mass media switching over and putting out a straight-up hardcore record that's really good. Everyone should check it out. It'll be in the sub stack that comes out tomorrow. Okay. So in 1982, you get this 7-inch that we're going to talk about today, this shit-licker 7-inch. You also get the first anti-CMX 7-inch. Anti-CMX for Staffan. But that first anti-CMX 7-inch is more just straightforward hardcore like the... like the head cleaners record, but this shit liquor seven inch is straight up raw punk. You know what I mean? Like this is full on discharge sounding hardcore punk. So it's notable because it's the first, uh, Swedish record that sounds like that. And like from this point on Sweden would be one of the regions, you know, along with Japan, you know, and the UK that like do this style, like they're the masters of the style. Right. So it's very notable, uh, in that regard and then also this is the only record that this band ever puts out they break up and then the next year uh the bass player of this band the shitleggers joins anti-cmx as the singer and they put out their seven inch raped ass which is full-on raw punk and uh that's going on right also in 83 that band mob 47 they put out their demo so now you have Anti-CMX, Mob 47, both playing that raw punk style. And then at 84, you get the third Anti-CMX 7-inch, the second of that raw style. And you get the classic Mob 47 7-inch that comes out that year. And then the rest is history. I'm not going to talk it. But hopefully that gives you a little context of where this shitlicker 7-inch is in the pantheon. Dan, what are your thoughts about it?
SPEAKER_01:First of all, shitlickers, right? Is that like a... Obviously, it's probably a take off of shit kickers, but is someone who's a shit licker, are they like an ass kisser or something?
SPEAKER_03:I don't know. Didn't I drop enough facts? You got to get me on a gotcha question.
SPEAKER_01:It's not a gotcha question. It's just like a funny thing. Obviously, when you hear punk band names, you just go, oh, yeah, the blah, blah, blahs. But when you actually zone in on what the words mean, you're like, hmm. licking
SPEAKER_03:shit. Yeah, is this like the king ass kisser? Maybe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. He's just got his tongue so far up there. Anyway, yeah, this is so ripping. This, do you know what's funny is like on our little like listening playlist of going from the bootlicker into this, it's like the perfect like transition. Do you know what I mean? Like it's just the same like pace, but this has just got so much grit and So much absolute authenticity of it being original and not trying to be something else to an extent. Obviously, they're influenced by their peers. What are your favorite songs on this? Because that would be interesting to compare and contrast. Because I really love, obviously, the first song, Worsest. I mean, I like all four songs to be... truthful but um i think side b has side a on this one
SPEAKER_03:dan i think they're out of order on the spotify so i wouldn't side a and side b it but dude the answer is i like all four of them you know i mean that's what makes it so great and but if i had to choose my favorite one leader of the fucking assholes i dude same i it's one of the greatest songs of all time like especially did you get a chance to look at the lyrics um no
SPEAKER_01:i didn't
SPEAKER_03:okay Dude, this song has two lines that they just repeat three times. It just says, who tells the cunts to do what they do? The leader of the fucking assholes. It's like, okay, fucking perfect. Blast the shit at every fucking state leader's funeral until the end of time. You know what I mean? But yeah, this band, like, I've always kind of used them as they're like the ultimate gatekeep band of the true punks, right? Like, You just think about a snobby punk dude that's like, oh, that guy's a fucking poser. He doesn't even know about the shit lickers. You know what I mean? And also, I think that the name kind of kept me away from acknowledging the greatness of this thing. You know what I mean? But dude, I got to say the Taco Bell sponsorships and the fucking PBR bullshit and the...$35 shirts and shows. Maybe they drove me to the arms of the shit lickers. You know what I'm saying? And, uh, I've come around to acknowledge how great this thing is. And if I redid my eighties list, it's making the top hundred for sure. And it's probably making the top 50 and that leader, the fucking asshole song. I mean, dude, it's pretty perfect. If you think about this record, four songs in three minutes and to have none of them be filler, uh, That's pretty amazing. And also, like, to be so stripped down and monotone, but to have every single song be catchy. Even the song sung in Swedish, you know? Sprakta, sprakta, sprakta, skala. Like, okay. Cracked schools, you know what I mean? Like, it's great. War system, war system, war system, now! Dude, you listen to it two times, you fucking know it. Who tells the cops to do what they do? The leader of the fucking assholes. Like, okay, it's perfect. And like the more you dial into it, the more you can appreciate the simplicity and the more you understand that replicating simplicity is the most impossible thing to do. Like it is so hard to do a stripped down band like this and have it be spectacular and good because it's, Generally, it'll just come off generic and cheesy, or people are going to try to butter it up and make it fancy, and it's not going to rip like the stripped-down version, right? This is so wild and so perfect, and I don't know. I wanted to talk it. And the other thing is, dude, the Shitlickers are on Spotify, so if you think your band is too punk to go on streaming, talk it out with them. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_01:Have you ever heard of PBG, Pink Bandana Guy? from back in the day at San Diego shows?
SPEAKER_02:No.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so there was this borderline lunatic that was from Eastern Europe, didn't know anyone, used to come with a pink bandana on, but tied in the, I don't know, Mike Judge way. Okay. And he would just come and circle pit like crazy. And we always used to call him PBG, and he'd just be a true... punk like was there just for the music not to like meet up with anyone he was just there to fucking pit right used to call him pbg he had a shit lickers patch let's just give respect
SPEAKER_03:dude respect to that dude straight up yeah i don't know i love this thing dan final thoughts
SPEAKER_01:hardcore is alive and well check out the list that we both put of our favorite things of the year so far and get in the comments telling us things that you've enjoyed uh just as much or if you've checked out any of that stuff and tell us your opinions on it but please uh hip us to new stuff all the time we love you and we love the patreons
SPEAKER_03:yeah and if you're doing a band try to write a chorus better than armed revolution fuck them all fucking shit you can't
SPEAKER_05:dude
SPEAKER_03:You can't. You can't. Dan, where can people find you?
SPEAKER_01:Find me on Instagram, at Southport Instagrammer. Find me at the Whistle Stop every third Friday, at the Cat Club in San Francisco every fourth Friday, giving you the tunes that matter.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and that means that's this coming Friday at the Whistle Stop in San Diego. So everyone, go say hi to Dan. All right, we are going to do a Boston area scene report. I have Renee here from Carrot Cake Fanzine. How is the scene now compared to three to five years ago in your area?
SPEAKER_00:Well, in addition to having new faces every year, I'd say that the scene is a bit bigger now. There are more shows happening. I think that there's been a big spike after COVID. People seeing What's Up maybe online, trying to check it out. The scene in Providence recently has become very young. A lot of teens coming out to shows and a lot of teens starting bands. So there's bands like Catalyst and Bulletproof Backpack who broke up this year. and created the new band Two Boys Kissing. We lost a couple things like America's Hardcore Fest and some great venues, but I'd say that overall the scene is going pretty strong in the Boston area right now.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, and just one quick side note. How old are you, Renee?
SPEAKER_00:I'm 27. Okay. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:yeah, because originally, this is our second take, but you said that a lot of the kids were half your age, and so I was like...
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I was with my friends who are in their early 30s, and they were like, hey, I'm 32, and these kids are all 15, 16, so...
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I feel you. So what are the main bands right now in the Boston Providence area?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I'd say that probably the biggest, most popular band is Fiddlehead, of course. Members of Have Heart and Basement. We've also got some great local acts. C4, Vanish Point, and Burning Lord are all the homies. Just the same guys, just creating awesome music in different bands. We've got bands like Wound Man doing power violence. We've also got CMI, Haywire, and Risk, bands like that just kind of representing the skinhead assaults and things like that. Then we've also got kind of Ankle Biter, which turned into a number of other bands like If It Rains, Attrition Ray, and Ultimatum kind of in the Rhode Island area. And then in Western Mass, we've got Restraining Order, of course. They're probably the biggest band out of there right now. Broken Vow and Connecticut kind of bands like Wreckage, a new band called Scud. But that's kind of the main players that we've got going right now.
SPEAKER_03:There's a band that just put out a 7-inch called The Massacred. Have you heard of them?
SPEAKER_00:The Massacred?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Anyway, maybe not. It might be a totally different scene. It's called Death March. Anyway, it's like Roots Hardcore. It's so good. But like... I talk about on the pod this week, like they only put two songs up on YouTube right now. It's like, what the fuck is this teaser shit? Just put the record. So, cause you don't, you see like the teasers for like the bigger label bands, you know, like, Oh, here's a single, here's another single. But like for, I don't know, for a true punk band, like it was kind of weird.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I'd say that also like within Boston, there is kind of like a weird separation between the hardcore and the like punk like capital P punk spiky jacket kind of kids. Like there's a little bit of a separation. We all go to shows at the middle East, but like it's kind of on different nights. I don't know a lot of the, the really punk kind of bands.
SPEAKER_03:Well, I do a whole breakdown on the band, the shit lickers this episode. So check it out. And it's never too late to, uh, to buy a, to buy a spiky wristband. You know what I'm saying?
SPEAKER_00:It's never too late.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Okay. So what are the main clubs in the area? And, Like out-of-town bands, when they're booking their tours and they want to come and play, where should they try to play shows and who should they get in touch with in the area?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so in Boston, we've got the famous Middle East. They've got the upstairs and downstairs in Central Square. Just a couple blocks from that, we have the Cambridge Elks Lodge, which is lovingly known as the Hardcore Stadium. Shows there have kind of slowed down a little bit, but I really hope that we keep that space open. There's also an Elks Lodge in Brighton, which is part of Boston, which is also known as the Tribe Dream Arena. Tribe Dream is Doug from C4 and Vantage Point's label. We've got Deep Cuts, which is like a deli bar, but also venue up in Medford, which is in the North Shore area. If you keep going even more north, there's Sammy's Patio, where it's in Revere, and that's where Syndrome 81 is playing. So I'm very excited for that. There's Ralph's Rock Diner in Worcester. And then if we go down into Rhode Island, there's, of course, AS220 in Providence. Alchemy, where Mindforce is playing soon. Black Lace, which is just like a hole in the wall that I went to the other night. There's The Met in Pawtucket. Simmons Farm has been putting on shows, which is Brian Simmons from Atomic Action. And also in Western Mass, we've got DIY spaces like Dracula and the Hoff, which are just in like this weird abandoned looking mill building in Holyoke and the Crunch House. So my favorite spots that I think that people should hit, honestly, would be the Brighton Elks, AS220, The Met, if your show is a little bigger, or always hit Western Mass and hit like the Dracula or the Hoff. If you want to get in touch with anyone regarding booking, I'd say in Boston, you should get in touch with Doug, who does Tribe Dream Records. You could look up Tribe Dream on Instagram. In Providence, Nick Bertels from Ankle Biter or Tom Z. In Western Mass, I'd say hit up Tommy from Anxious and Broken Vow.
SPEAKER_03:Any other unique contributors in the area? Obviously, we all get Carrot Cake fanzine. It's the shit. Who else is putting down cool stuff like you are?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I am putting down cool stuff and I'm putting down a new issue this summer. So that is going to be super fun. That's almost out. And I will be at the Hardcore Flea Market in Worcester, Massachusetts. That's going to be at Ralph's Rock Diner in the parking lot on August 31st. The market starts at 1 and the show is at 3. There's some really sick bands on that. You should check out Drain Metalcore if you like that kind of shit. Balmora was on tour, so they can't make it, but it should be fun. And then I'd say for photographers, we've got the GOAT, Todd Pollack. His Instagram is eyeofthestorm99, and he has just been around literally since I've been born. He's been creating amazing hardcore photography. There's also my friend Pat's Polaroids, who takes, of course, Polaroids at shows, and they're really cool. And he uses expired film, all kinds of different techniques. And then we've got a couple people who are videographers. We've got Montana Media and my friend Jonathan, who does 9-7 Hate. As for record labels, we do have Tribe Dream, like I said. And then there's also No Norms Records, which is a bit more punk. He does a great distro. I got the Illiterates record from him.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah. What are the best vegan and vegetarian spots in Boston right now?
SPEAKER_00:You know that I'm the best person to ask for this as the resident Boston Providence vegan. There are many of us though, I will be honest.
SPEAKER_04:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:So in Providence, I will say that the best spot to go now if you're in a touring band is the Providence Vegan Deli. It's a brand new spot on Hope Street in Providence and touring bands get to eat free. If you have proof that you are in a band and you are playing Providence or you're stopping by, just going through up 95, I'd say stop by the Vegan Deli. He makes his own seitan and house, and it's so fire. There's also Garden Grill and Wildflower in Pawtucket, Pianta and Plant City in Providence, but in Boston... There's Veggie Galaxy, which is right around the corner from the Middle East. Taco Party in Medford. It's not in Medford. Taco Party in Somerville. And of course, Pressed Cafe has a ton of vegan options.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah. How about record stores? What's the best spot to go if you want punk and hardcore?
SPEAKER_00:If you want punk and hardcore, I would stop by my favorite store, which is called Wanna Hear It in Watertown. It's run by Joey Cahill, who does 6131 Records. And he has an awesome, wonderfully curated store. I've gotten some really cool rare shit from him. But there's also Armageddon in Providence and in Boston, which is punk, metal, hardcore, anything like that that you might want.
SPEAKER_03:We're fans of Joey. We go way back. So what's up, Joey? What's going
SPEAKER_00:on? Hell yeah. Shout out, Joey. He's got a great store.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_00:And shout out Sam who works there.
SPEAKER_03:That's right. Both of
SPEAKER_00:them. And DFJ who works there.
SPEAKER_03:Hey, shout out to the whole crew. What's going on? Okay. Where do hardcore kids hang out in the area? If there's no shows going on, where are you guys hanging at?
SPEAKER_00:The new spot is the Providence Vegan Deli. Can't tell you how many times I've seen the guys from Peace Test posting that they're there. Also, I want to hear it. And When there are shows, you can definitely catch people hanging out at Veggie Galaxy and the McDonald's in Central Square.
SPEAKER_03:And how should people find out about shows? Is there any sort of listing?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, certainly. So my friend Gabe does a website and an Instagram that is all Boston area shows. His website is safeinacrowd.com. The Instagram is safe.in.a.crowd.
SPEAKER_05:And
SPEAKER_00:if you want to see Providence shows, there is the at Providence Hardcore page and Western Mass has at W Mass HC shows.
SPEAKER_03:All right, Renee, it's time to put on your wizard hat.
SPEAKER_00:Where do you see the
SPEAKER_03:scene? Where do you see the scene in three to five years from now?
SPEAKER_00:I see the scene still thriving, but maybe slightly smaller. I think that the post-COVID boom might, be over soon? I don't know because it just keeps on fucking raging. I see a lot of younger kids wanting to start bands and actually getting out there and starting. So I see a new generation beginning and I'm kind of hoping to see a little bit more of the regular hardcore. I want the demo core revival that we all have been wanting since the demo core day of America's Hardcore at the Final Fest. So I'm hoping to see a little bit more regular A ton of mosh. I want to see more people coming out to shows too, but I think that, you know, we just want the real ones to kind of stick around.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Okay. Where can everyone find you and follow you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So you can follow me at carrot cake, 1996 on Instagram. And I also have a website where I sell my art and my zines. So keep an eye out for that. That is carrot cake, zine.com.
SPEAKER_03:And I have commissioned you for some sick-ass burrito art, so I appreciate that.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, of course. If you want to commission me, just send me a DM or email me at carrotcakezine at gmail.com, and I will be happy to work with you.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, yeah. Renee, thanks so much for your time.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, thank you, Zach.
UNKNOWN:Thank you.
SPEAKER_07:All
SPEAKER_03:right, this week on the pod, I got Beto from Demise, Asphyxiation, 25 to Life, Marauder, and Madball. What's up, dude? What's up, Zach? How's it going, man? What is going on? Okay, everyone, before we get started, I just want to say for a longer interview with Beto, where he talks a lot more about his origin story and all that, check out episode 121 of the This is Hardcore podcast. Joe dove real deep with him, and I think you guys went like two and a half hours. It was sick.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I didn't. Yeah, it was pretty long. I was like, man, I don't know if I've got that much history, but
SPEAKER_03:we'll see. Yeah. And then if you got time, you can also go to the episode 54 of This is Hardcore and get with your boy, me. So check that one out, too.
SPEAKER_02:Everyone. I'll check that out.
SPEAKER_03:Hell yeah. OK, Beto, Demise recorded two demos in 1990 with Dawn Fury. What was your your first impression of Dawn Fury? And then what were your memories of recording those two demos?
SPEAKER_02:The well, I was I was stoked to be going to Don because he had a lot of history already, you know, working with AF and all the other bands, you know, Judge and so many bands that he's worked with over there. So to me, it was an honor to just even get down there. But, you know, what we used to do was originally we would go to Don's and we would do two track live demos. And we had a lot of those. And, you know, eventually we saved up enough to do that 8-track demo, the first one, which I think might have been 89, actually, when we did that. And to me, you know, I remember not knowing what the hell I was doing. I don't think we were that prepared for recording those songs. They were kind of like written really quick, but it didn't matter. I think it captured the essence of how we were. You know, we were young. We were playing our instruments for like maybe a year tops at the time. And Don made us sound better than we actually really sounded back then. Because like I said, we really didn't know what we were doing. I didn't know how to get a sound. We would just, you know, I'd come up with a riff, or Hoy would come up with a riff. Our drummer would throw the drums on, you know, whatever beat he wanted to throw on there. And we would let G on the first demo basically say whatever the hell he wanted. You know, we were kids. It exceeded my expectations. I'll say that. And Don was an awesome dude to start the journey with.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. What was he like as a person, like when you're dealing with him as like a young dude that doesn't really know too much of what you're doing?
SPEAKER_02:Actually, I felt bad for him. I felt like I was asking, you know, I felt like I was asking maybe things that I didn't know much about. So I'd be like, hey, Don, let's do this. Or, hey, you know, I want to get this heavier sound and, you know, things that really were more up to me than were up to him. And, you know, he would kind of, he would work with us, but I could tell that, you know, sometimes it was probably frustrating him. But I was maybe, what, like 16 years old, using like two distortion pedals at a time, no noise gate, you know, just... Um, but like I said, you know, he did good, you know, he added, you know, I can hear he added like reverb, which to the guitar tracks, which back then I guess was kind of big. I noticed like even the metal bands were doing it stuff that, that I didn't ask him to do, but he, he knew what was up. He knew what to do to, uh, help us sound as, as good as we wanted to sound. And we didn't, you know, we did two demos with him. By the time we did the second demo, I had more of an idea of what I was doing and the other guys too. And, and we had a cheeky singing on that one. And you, you could tell the difference between that first demo and the second demo. The second one starts with from reality and you could tell, you know, we, we started, you know, becoming a real band and, um, And we gelled a lot better. The song sounded better, well put. The recording was better quality. And that wasn't Don Fury's fault. That was us because we actually started learning how to... tune our instruments maybe and how to get a real sound you know where before like like i said i all i did was i bought like a boss heavy metal pedal and like an overdrive and i plugged it into like a little combo marshall that don had in there and i just turned everything to like 10 because that's all i knew how to do back then
SPEAKER_03:yeah and the first one you're is is kind of all over the place in a way of like it has like fast beats on it but they kind of Yeah. Yeah. Because on the first demo, you know, like Richie, you
SPEAKER_02:know, or, or, or drummer, he didn't know much. He knew as much as I knew about, um, writing music. And you're right. You know, I've heard that before that some of the beats sound like they're kind of like backwards and, you know, there's mistakes on the guitars that I left on there and, you know, notes that pop in and then pop right back out that shouldn't be there. But, you know, for that second demo, we were practicing a lot more. Um, we were, we were a lot more confident with what we were doing. You know, we were older and, and, uh, You could hear it there. And by the time we did the third demo, I'm jumping a little bit ahead, but then you could hear that the musicianship got a lot better.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that backwards fast beat. I wonder about that sometimes because there was a lot of– not a lot, but there was a handful of hardcore bands that came out of NorCal in the mid, late 90s, and they all did that backwards fast beat. I kind of wonder
SPEAKER_02:– we screwed them up.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you wonder, right? Like maybe the demo like circulated and like, that's what they heard. And that was like easier to do the snare on the one than on the two. Like, who knows?
SPEAKER_02:It's really bizarre, but you know what? I mean, that's cool. You know what I mean? Sometimes cool things come out of mistakes, you know? And, uh, I know like Richie was like a huge Dave Lombardo fan. Um, I don't know if he translated something Dave Lombardo was doing into that type of fast beat. I mean, who knows? Or you know what? He lives out in Southern California now. Maybe he's out there secretly teaching these guys how to play that way.
SPEAKER_03:Well, you know, the first two verses on Silent Scream on that Slayer song, they are that backwards fast beat. And then he breaks into the regular fast beat on the third verse. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:that could be it. He was all Lombardo, man, like completely. Like that's all he did was worship Dave Lombardo. And, you know, sometimes it was crazy because, you know, that meant doing more than what was necessary for the song sometimes. Sometimes I'd just watch him and be like, Richie, that's crazy. You don't need to go that nuts. But I don't know. I think it gave us a cool– You know, cool sound. We were trying to be metal before we knew how to play metal. You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_03:So you're around age 16, New York City, 1990. What is like the scene like? Where are you going to shows at? How many kids are showing up at hardcore shows? Like, can you kind of paint the picture?
SPEAKER_02:It was, geez, you know, I want to say. We started going to shows in 86. We were like 13 years old, I want to say. And the shows back then were packed. Every Seabees matinee that I remember was packed, no matter what. Every Sunday when I went, it didn't matter who was playing, the show was packed. The line would go all the way down the block and it would wrap around. A lot of times... The shows were so packed that half the crowd was outside. The walls were like sweaty dripping in there because there's so many people in there. I remember we'd get violent at times, but it really didn't matter. It would turn out being a good show anyway. We used to go to Seabees a lot. I remember going to the Pyramid a lot. Shows at the Pyramid were hit or miss. Some of them would pack in, some of them wouldn't, but it didn't seem like as many people would go there as Seabees maybe. But those were the main spots that I would go to for shows back then. And then, you know, you had like L'Amour's out in Brooklyn, but that was, you know, That was, you know, there was a lot of hardcore bands playing there, but it was mainly the metal scene that was going over there, which was cool. And then, you know, that ended up introducing metal into the 90s, hardcore bands like, you know, like Us and Marauder, Confusion, you know, going to shows in Brooklyn there at Lemoore's, basically exposed us to the more metallic side of the music, you know?
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but CB's was kind of like off again, on again in the late 80s, early 90s, right? It stopped doing hardcore shows in 89 for a while and then it starts back up in the early 90s and then stops again. Do you remember all that?
SPEAKER_02:It did, yeah. And that was because of the violence. Hilly would get fed up and then he would stop the hardcore shows. And being older now, I understand. When I was a kid, I'd just get mad and start cursing about it. But he needed hardcore to keep that place running. So so, you know, he would shut it down and then he would bring it back because he needed us. And, you know, that's what basically brought about the wetlands. You know, when CB stopped having shows, the wetlands started having shows and the shows at the wetlands were crazy. They were packed. They were insane. They were fun. You know, that that's one spot that I really miss. I think that for the for the 90s era of hardcore was, you know. probably more important than CB's, I would say.
SPEAKER_03:And what was the proximity of that to CB's?
SPEAKER_02:Not far, not far. I'd say, you know what, like 15 minutes.
SPEAKER_03:Okay. Right on. Um, so Demise does a third demo in 1992. How has like the hardcore scene in New York city changed between the first and the third demo, like that two year stretch?
SPEAKER_02:It was, uh, you know, I want to say that if I remember correctly, the scene started declining. Things started, you know, the show started getting smaller for a little bit. It was really weird because I remember, you know, we did that demo over, which we actually recorded in New Jersey, in Jackson, New Jersey at Wildfire. So it was a different studio. It wasn't with Don. And that place came recommended by, I believe it was Mike Dijon because his old band Show Force recorded over there. But the scene itself I noticed was kind of dying out. The shows weren't as packed anymore, and I want to say that that post-hardcore era started coming in, like Quicksand and all those type of bands, and it seemed like those were the bands that were becoming popular, and the heavier, kind of more crazier bands, I guess you'd say, like us, weren't... I guess we just weren't doing as well for a while. And I remember doing a few shows with AF even for that. I want to say it was around right before they broke up, and even those shows weren't all that. It was weird, and hardcore kind of died out, and I want to say it came back around 94.
SPEAKER_03:It's weird. I wonder if there's some parallels to now, because it seems like you know, you have those giant shows like the in effect show and I'm sure there had to be other big shows like that, but then like, yeah, like the, the underground shit, it kind of starts slipping where you still have like these giant peaks, but like the valleys keep getting deeper and deeper. You know, was that like a thing at all? Or do you think like just everything declined like, like sharply from like 91 to 92? I
SPEAKER_02:think everything kind of declined sharply except for that post hardcore era. Yeah. But yeah, you know, and, and I'm not just saying this cause these are my friends that I grew up with, but I remember when, when demise, while I was in demise towards the end, I was also in asphyxiation and, and Hoya was already playing in mad ball. And, um, I remember the hardcore scene kind of dying and we decided, you know what, he'll go on doing Madball and I'll go on doing Asphyxiation. And for that little moment in time when I was doing Asphyxiation, it looked like the metal scene was getting a lot bigger than the hardcore scene, which, you know, and this I'm talking about like the local metal scene, not the big metal scene. And 94... When Madball came out with Set It Off, the scene just exploded all over again. It was weird. It seemed like overnight it exploded and it ushered in like a whole new batch of bands that were kind of like in the same vein. And it just kept going up, up and up from there. But, you know, I want to say maybe from like, I don't know, 91 or 92 to 94 was kind of dead. You know, 94 things started coming right back. And, you know, I think that we got Madball to thank for that.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Also, you have Sick of It All, Scratch the Surface is 94, right? So that's a big record as well. But it is strange because just look around, it's 92. Agnostic Front, One Voice is 92. Both total classic hardcore records and yeah, just a rough year, huh?
SPEAKER_02:They are, yeah. But I don't think One Voice was well-received. I love One Voice. I think it's one of the best AF records. I mean, I think it's But when it came out, it wasn't well-received. Scratch the Surface was. Scratch the Surface absolutely was well-received. But Sick of It All was one of those bands that at that time, they were so big, it didn't matter if the scene was dying in New York. They were still doing well. Right. Yeah, they
SPEAKER_03:transcended kind of at that point.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they did. If hardcore shows were dead at the time, let's say at the Wetlands, it didn't matter. Sick of It All would go in there and sell it out.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So they got to that level. I don't think they felt what was going on in New York the way that we all felt. But like I said, starting with 94 with Madball and set it off. And I want to say Life of Agony came out with River Runs Red. Everything started getting huge again, all over again. It was awesome. It was a great time. And the odd thing is, I want to say Roadrunner. I guess Roadrunner had a hand in signing these bands that kind of brought the scene back to life. And I always considered that a metal label, but it definitely helped us out.
SPEAKER_03:I want to get your impression on Saturday Off, but before we go there, who are these kids you think that go see Sick of It All, but then don't go see the other hardcore bands? Who are these people?
SPEAKER_02:Man... I don't want to offend anybody by saying it, but it's like, you know, listen, the people that would go to those shows, I think were people that wanted to go to a show that they felt safe at. And I think a lot of people felt safe at these Sick of It All shows and they didn't feel safe at like, let's say like a Madball show. So I want to say that of the crowd, maybe like the crowds that would go to like these straight edge shows, Those younger kids, I think that they felt safe going to a Sick of It All show, but they didn't feel safe going to Marauder, Madball, things like that. I think that that crowd helped Sick of It All transcend what was going on. I'm not saying that in a bad way. It's great that they appealed to a larger audience, but part of that audience wasn't available to us. And I think a lot of it had to do with, you know, the way the scene was, you know, the violence and all that stuff. And I guess, you know, I can't blame people. You didn't really see much of that happening at Sick of It All shows. So I think that's something that, on top of them being great, you know, helped them out, that they kind of seemed separate from what was going on in the New York scene at the time.
SPEAKER_03:Do you think their connection to that scene was just solely because they put out that EP on Rev? And so that kind of like it had a long tail and all the same kids kind of liked it, like their whole catalog? It could be.
SPEAKER_02:It's weird. I mean, you know, I have a hard time understanding it. Sometimes I think that things are meant to be and they happen the way they're supposed to happen. I mean, I was always a big Sick of It All fan from the beginning, from the demo. And when that 7-inch came out... I really didn't think, I mean, Revelation to me was just a hardcore label. They were putting out a lot of bands back then. So I don't think that they were as exclusive to that crowd back then as they are sort of now. You know what I mean? I think Revelation was more of just a hardcore label. Later on, I think it became something else where, you know, only certain, certain genres of hardcore would, you know, would come out on that label. But, you know, I don't know. I think a lot of it has to do with, you really honestly didn't see the violence happening at the single, but all shows the way you saw it at the other shows for whatever reason, you know, and, you know, there's a lot of stuff too with, you know, the, the crew affiliations back in the day in the nineties, you know, that, that, that probably, you know, had some play in it where, you know, I mean, I didn't see it because I, I grew up in the city, but I would say that if I was like a suburban kid and I'm going to go to like a show where I would think that, you know, there's going to be fights and I'll be like, oh, there's going to be some crews over there. Maybe I'm going to stay home. You know what I mean? Where for us living in the boroughs, it was like normal. Like we didn't care. I mean, if anything, we kind of liked the danger part of the shows in a weird way. Not that I wanted something bad to happen. but it added to the excitement in a weird way, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. You grew up with Hoya. So like, did you get to hear set it off before it came out? Yeah, absolutely. What were your impressions? Like the first time you heard it, like, did you think it was going to be the game changer that it was?
SPEAKER_02:I did. And I told him that because, you know, the reason why I did was because like I told you before, like I, you know, I was playing an asphyxiation. That was my main thing at the time. And, um, I wasn't listening to much hardcore music. After Demise, mainly because you started having a lot of cool records coming out from metal bands. Like I said on the Joe's podcast, like Heartwork from Carcass, Cause of Death, Obituary, a few death records, Spiritual Healing. And I was like, you know what, let me just give hardcore a break. And I just wasn't really impressed by what was coming out from hardcore bands at the time. And when I heard Set It Off, it immediately grabbed me. I remember telling Hoy, I was like, dude, I don't know what you guys did. but this is going to blow up. I'm like, it's just, it sounded and felt very New York, you know, um, it grooved and it didn't, they didn't overdo it. It was just very natural. It didn't seem like they were trying to be something that they weren't. It, the way they looked and the way they sounded was perfect, you know? And, uh, and I think it changed, I think it changed the game and I knew it. I mean, I had the, I had the promo copy of it. I wore that fricking thing out on cassette and, uh, and the CDs as well. And, you know, it stood the test of time. I mean, to these, to this day, those guys are still playing those songs from that first record, probably more than any of the other records they ever released, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's their victim in pain.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's definitely their victim in pain. Um, yeah, they killed it with that one.
SPEAKER_03:What were your impressions of 25 to life before you joined the band?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, before I, before I joined 25 to life, I heard the band through, uh, my friend Frankie that was living with Hoya. When I first heard the band, I thought it was cool, but it didn't immediately grab me to be completely honest, just because, you know, having had already played in Demise and then playing in Asphyxiation, I was kind of like, I was more on the, I want to say on that death metal thing going, you know, but I remember them asking me, They were getting ready to relieve their other guitarist, Steve Pettit. And Steve Pettit was my rhythm guitarist in asphyxiation. So they asked me if I wanted to play. And I really didn't want to replace Steve because he was my buddy. And they told me they were going to get rid of him anyway for whatever reason that I don't remember exactly what happened. Maybe those guys weren't seeing eye to eye about something. But I ended up joining, and the main thing that I wanted to do, which is the reason why you hear all that crazy whammy bar stuff, I kind of wanted to add a few of the things that I was doing in asphyxiation to 25 to Life. make it not sound as bland because that was the only thing. I felt like it was cool, but it sounded a little bland. I guess I tried to make it a little crazy with my whammy stuff. Maybe I went a little too crazy with it.
SPEAKER_03:The squealing stuff on Keeping It Real makes the record. It's wild, that sound you get. It just sounds almost like you're just getting feedback for a split second right in front of your amp. I can't really tell what it is.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, they're, uh, they're flutters, you know, they're like, I guess, well, flutters or cat purrs with the Floyd Rose. And, you know, I used to write a lot of solos with them, but with 25 to life, like those, uh, like melodic solos, I don't think really would have worked for that band. Like the solos I would write in demise would just, it wasn't for 25 to life. So instead of adding something that was going to add melody, I was like, you know what, let me just add something that's going to make it maybe a little more chaotic or meaner, you know? And, and, Then after a while, it was just dive bombs and flutters. And it's funny because I practice a lot with those guys now, and I'm back to doing that same stuff, and it feels very natural. It's not even like I had to relearn it. It just automatically comes out. It's like I kind of just made it my style. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:it's great because it sounds like it's an alarm going off right before a tempo change.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. I mean, I could imagine if somebody's never heard it before and one of those things hit on short fuse, it'd probably make you bug out and go, what the hell is that? Is that like something went wrong there?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. So there's a few comp songs that come out in 95 that predate Keepin' Real. Are these the first recordings that you do with 25 to Life?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah, the first thing I did was– What was that comp? Is that New York's Hardest, I want to say?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so there's New York's Hardest comp. That's Keeping It Real and Reality's End come out on that. And then there's also another comp, Psycho Civilized comp. Inside Knowledge is on there. I don't know if that's a different recording of it or if it's the same one from the self-titled.
SPEAKER_02:Interesting. I don't think I was on that one. Maybe that they might have just taken unless it's a live version because I never re-recorded Inside Knowledge. So that might have been a recording from Steve Pettit's era. But the first thing that I did, the first recording that I did with that band was Reality's End and Keeping It Real for New York's Hardest. And I wrote a solo that's more like a Demise type solo for Reality's End.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, what do you remember about that recording session?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, it was funny, man. I remember coming in and, you know, Tim, who owned the studio, he owned Big Blue Meanie, you know, God rest his soul, good guy. I remember going into the studio. He had a problem with something that I was doing. I don't remember what the hell it was. But I forget what he wanted me to do. But I remember we ended up kind of like not seeing eye to eye. I ended up doing my tracks separately. And years later, and I mean, I'm jumping years later, you know, when I, when I was in Madball and I did hold it down again, I'm back at his studio and he ends up saying, you know, talking to me about it. He's like, Hey, he's like, Hey Beto, let's let that go water under the bridge. Right. And I was like, Oh dude, I completely forgot about that. I can't even believe you remembered, man.
SPEAKER_03:That's wild. Did you write, did you, or I should ask, Who wrote the chorus riff for Keep It Real?
SPEAKER_02:I believe the chorus riff was written by Fred. Most of Keep It Real is written by Fred, except for the lyrics. And Reality's End was written by Frankie, that was the original bass player before Warren. Those two songs were written before I was in the band.
SPEAKER_03:How do you feel the first time you hear like that chorus riff of Keeping It Real? Like it's the ultimate riff, right? It's so simple and so good. And it's just one of those things like, why didn't I think of it? You know?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. Fred is really good at writing dance riffs. Mainly because, you know, I think he's one of those dudes that would always dance. He was one of the guys at CB's that always be dancing. I wasn't ever really a big dancer. You know, so I think sometimes you got to be in it to win it. You know, he knows what he wants to dance to. So he writes it, you know, and and it shows, you know, shows in that riff like a lot of bands today are playing that riff tuned down like A or B. And it sounds like something completely different, but it's the same thing. You know what I mean? I think definitely it started a type of style, you know.
SPEAKER_03:So you saw what was going on with 25 to life, like, you know, 93, 94. Do you, do you see a boost in popularity? Like after that comp comes out and like you guys have like a certified hit?
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah. Because by the time, well, you know, we, we used to play a lot of shows. I mean, a lot of shows, I felt like we were playing minimum three shows a week. sometimes four to five shows a week. And that wasn't even being on tour. That was like just leaving my house after work and we'd be driving out to play shows all over the area. But, you know, by the time that, by the time we started doing real touring, which wasn't until what, 96, when that Keeping It Real EP came out, that was, I mean, the European tour was packed. Every show was packed. We were all, our first tour was in a bus. you know, and we were headlining. So I was surprised. I, I expected, I didn't expect for the shows to be as good as they were. And I, you know, to be completely honest, I don't remember playing really any empty wax shows, even in the States, you know, um, whether we were out in the West coast or we were out in the East coast or, or Europe, even when, you know, we do Japan, the shows were always packed. So we were blessed, you know, um, I mean, I don't know how else to explain it. We were definitely blessed because other bands that I've been in, I felt like we had to work harder than 25 to Life had to.
SPEAKER_03:The New York Hardcore documentary was recorded in 95. The 25 to Life show that was filmed was on July 27th at the Pipeline in Newark, New Jersey. What were your memories of that show and the filming process?
SPEAKER_02:My memories of that show, well, more than likely it was a Thursday. I remember that. I remember Hoy and Narc came with me that day. What else do I remember? I remember I forgot my distortion pedals. So I got this real dry-ass guitar sound on that documentary because I forgot my damn pedals. Jeez, besides that, you know... It was a fun time. I think for some reason I want to say VOD was playing. I mean, I know Tim was over there because I've seen him in the video. Yeah, they played. It just, you know, that was one of those spots where we would hit it all the time and the shows were always on Thursday nights. I still lived in Queens and I would freaking get picked up by Warren right after work, head all the way down there, play that show. you know, play the show over there. Like it was crazy. I don't know how the hell we did it. You know, we'd be doing it on like minimal sleep, you know, get up at six in the morning and I'm hitting the stage at like 1030 at night, you know, and, and probably drunk off my ass too.
SPEAKER_03:Cause
SPEAKER_02:you know, what else was I going to do when I was a kid? I was, you know, we were all like a mess.
SPEAKER_03:Was the recording raw though? Or was there any like bullshit going on? Like for instance, when they did like that third decline of the Western civilization, like, like documentary out here in LA or out in LA, they like, the rumor is like they moved everyone up that looked punk. You know what I mean? Like, okay, you're a square, like get in the back. We want all the, the true punks up front. You know what I mean? Like, was there any crowd coaching or anything weird like that for the documentary or was it all just like legit shot? No, it was legit.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Frank didn't do any of that. He basically just came in there with the cameras and whatever always goes on is, is exactly what he caught there. And, um, Most of the shows were even crazier than that one, to be honest. I mean, when I watch the footage of it now, I'm like, oh, it was a good show, but it wasn't as packed as some of the other shows that we play there. But there was no coaching there. And what's funny is a lot of the people you see in those videos still go to shows today. It's pretty bugged out to me. The Jersey scene, because that club was in Newark, stayed pretty consistent. And like I said, a lot of those people that you see in those videos still go to shows today if they still live in the area. But, you know, I remember, you know, Virginia was on the documentary, you know, she passed away, but she was at every show no matter what. It did not matter. She was there. She was going to make it somehow. And that was cool that that was captured because she definitely deserved the place in that video because, you She was, like I said, at everybody's show, not just 25 to Life. That was pretty impressive. When I think about it now, I'm like, geez, that was her life. It was for all of us, but she wasn't in a band, you know what I mean? So that was impressive.
SPEAKER_03:No, she was great on that. That's good that they interviewed a true fan like that. Were you interviewed at all and they just cut your clip?
SPEAKER_02:No, I wasn't interviewed at all. For that, they interviewed– it looks like they just interviewed mainly– I mean, I know Dijon got interviewed for that, but they interviewed Rick. You know, they went to his place, Freddie, Ezek. But, you know, it could have also been because I had a day job back then. I wasn't as available as those other guys were. So, you know, to get me would have been pretty tough for sure.
SPEAKER_03:They did interview Caesar in like maybe the best scene in the documentary,
SPEAKER_02:right? Yes, you're right. You're right. And I'm sure he regrets it to this day.
SPEAKER_03:We love it though. I mean, what a, what an American hero, right? Like that. Yeah. Caesar's freaking funny as hell, man. That's great.
SPEAKER_02:I know when I watch it, sometimes when I watch it, sometimes I'm like, man, I'm like, that is, that's like the most awesome part of the whole documentary. But I'm like, I wonder how he feels about it now.
SPEAKER_03:It's so cool. Cause like, it's that. And then they like cut to him, like busting, like the gnarliest solo, like outside at some gig.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yes. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah, he was good, man. He was he was good rocking that Les Paul, man. He was younger than all of us. And he was, you know, he would go off, man. He was impressive to watch Caesar. And it was almost like he would just zone out into his own place when he was playing.
SPEAKER_03:That's so sick. What were your thoughts on the documentary when it came out? Because it came out like significantly later, like four years later.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it did. By the time it came out, I forgot we did it. I remember Frank sent us copies and I was happy with it, man. I was happy when it came out. I thought it captured us the way we really were. I don't think that we were presented in the wrong light. I think Frank did an awesome job and I think he caught... the scene at a perfect time, you know, when it was, it was really growing again. And, uh, you know, the funny thing is years later out of, out of the blue, he hit me up and he sent me DVD copies of it, like a deluxe edition with like additional interviews. I loaned it to somebody and I don't know where the hell it went. It's freaking gone. It's not in my house anymore. I wish I still had it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. I remember that. It came out later. Like, I think it was like a 10 year anniversary or something and it had all new interviews. It was sick.
SPEAKER_02:Yes. Yeah, you got it. But no, to this day, I still have the VHS version. I think my son watches it sometimes. Yeah, but it was so cool, man. I'm glad that he caught it. And I'm glad that he let us just do our thing and he showed us for who we really were. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:such a great time capsule. Okay, so 96, 25 to Life puts out probably its best record, the sixth song, Keeping It Real CD. You recorded it in Result Studio. Yeah. What are your memories of that session?
SPEAKER_02:I remember that, you know, the main thing was we were trying to make it, you know, everybody hearing like, you know, everybody coming out with these great records, like, you know, Madball coming out with Set It Off and, you know, Your Life of Agony, like I said, River Runs Red, all these other bands. I wanted to make sure that it came out as good or as awesome sounding as it possibly could. So I remember going in there and with high expectations. And I think that when I got the mixed copy of that recording, I was happy with it. But when we mastered it, I dropped it off at Frankfurt Wayne for mastering. It was one of those deals that you just drop it in a mailbox and then you pick it up a few days later. And I wasn't happy with the mastered version. I felt like they neutered the recording. And I was like, shit, man. I'm like, all that work for nothing. But we even had AJ from Leeway come in and help us out during the mix. And like I said, it sounded really good, man. But I really don't know what happened during the mastering. Maybe they overly compressed the whole thing. I wish that everybody would have heard it the way it was before it was mastered, to be completely honest. But it was a fun time being in the studio. Harry, the drummer, I've known forever. Same thing with Fred, Warren, and Rick I met when I was in Demise. So yeah. It was definitely a cool experience to be in there recording those songs for those guys. And some of those songs were already recorded. I know they recorded Short Fuse and maybe Keeping It Real before on the 7-inch. So redoing that for the Keeping It Real CD was pretty cool. Better sound quality.
SPEAKER_03:It's the best sounding record. Straight Through Unity sounds great too. But Keeping It Real... It's so monotone in the best ways. I'm surprised you don't like how it sounds. Do you still feel that way? Like it doesn't sound good?
SPEAKER_02:If I never heard it before the mastering, I'd be okay with it. But it sounded more raw before it was mastered. The best way for me to explain it to you is after they mastered it, it almost sounded like they put a pillow on the speaker.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, but it's still so bright, right? Like I get it. I can take your idea of it being super compressed, but like it's compressed and then mastered. Like it's gnarly sounding, dude. I don't know. Like for that type of music, I think it's one of the greatest recordings there is just in the way that it's like it's just so monotone, right? But you hear everything and it's so like big. I don't know.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, thank you. Yeah, man. Maybe I'm being a little bit too hard on it, but that, you know, that was, that was only because, because when I picked it up from Frankfurt Wayne, I was like, what did they do? And I'm like, there's nobody for me to speak to. And you just pick it up. I'm like, like, I was like, I need to talk to somebody. I was like, what happened to the recording? You know?
SPEAKER_03:No, no. I mean, I think a record like One Voice, like that could be remastered, right? Like the mix is great. The songs are great. It's my second favorite AF record.
SPEAKER_02:Well, here's the thing with that record. that could be the same thing that was also mastered at frankfurt wing
SPEAKER_03:that's some shit
SPEAKER_02:so i don't know they may be the culprits man what the
SPEAKER_03:fuck is going on around here
SPEAKER_02:yeah they neutered both of us man but yeah that that yeah you're right one voice could definitely benefit from a remaster that you know um but that record is so damn good man
SPEAKER_03:so good
SPEAKER_02:that It was– yeah, I couldn't believe it when I heard like– when I started hearing the bad reviews. I'm like these people don't know what the hell they're talking about. I'm like these guys just did their most professional record of their career and people are actually talking smack. I'm like what the hell is wrong with them?
SPEAKER_03:That's insane. Yeah. So 25 to Life came to the West Coast after that record then, huh? I just must have missed you. I got into hardcore in like 96 and I don't– I didn't get to see 25 to Life until the Strength or Unity tour. So what do you– What do you remember about coming to the West Coast off the Keep It Real record? Do you fly out and drive out? What do you do?
SPEAKER_02:You really just missed us because that was 97 when we went out there. What the fuck? Yeah, dude, you just missed us. But we flew out there, and I want to say most of the tour was booked by the Powerhouse guys.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, we went to all
SPEAKER_02:their shows. Yeah, you really just missed us, man. But it was a good time. Great shows. I also remember almost getting killed out there. Let's
SPEAKER_03:start with the good, though. Let's start with the good. Do you remember at all where you played in Southern California?
SPEAKER_02:Man, I can't exactly remember the names of the places. I wish I did. But I mean, I could tell you we played at San Diego. We played Sacramento. We played Oakland. I want to say Fresno as well.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_02:We were all over the place, but I don't remember exactly the names of these places. But those guys made sure that the shows were amazing. I mean, I don't know. Maybe we played Gilman Street. That might have been one of the places, I think.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. That's sick. So you almost got killed. I think you told the story on Joe's podcast. Well, let's get it here for my people. So yeah. It just led me wanting to leave the band, right? What's that? this is part of what led to you wanting to leave the band.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. Part of it. I mean, you know, it was pretty stupid. I mean, basically I, you know, I had, well, listen, I can't say I didn't know about the colors thing in California. Cause I had seen the movie colors as corny as that sounds, you know, but, but I didn't think that it was really like that big of a deal over there. So we, you know, we're out in the mission district and I'm wearing all blue, you know? Um, and, uh, I leave a convenience store. I'm outside, you know, drinking my Snapple. And I see some kid dressed in all red. I didn't really think about it. And, you know, he basically, he asked me, he goes, hey, man, you were Scrap. And I'm like, what the hell is a Scrap? And he asked me again. And I'm looking at him. I'm like, what the hell is this guy saying? And I'm like, bro, I said, I'm from New York. I don't know what the hell you're talking about. And he whistles. And then he yells to his boys, yo, New York City Scrap. And I'm like, holy shit. That can't be good. All of a sudden, I see tons of guys coming from every corner at this intersection. I see guys coming with machetes. I see guys coming with broken crutches. I see guys coming with bats, knives, you name it. Rick is in a record store. I don't know what he was doing. I think buying CDs so that he could sell and shirts or something like that. We all run in there. We tell him, listen, dude, we got to get out. We got a problem. This is going to get bad. And he didn't want to leave. And I'm like, look, look outside. He's like, what the fuck did you do? And I was like, bro, let's worry about that later. I was like, cause this is serious shit, you know? And it got to the point that they were like surrounding the record store. And I remember that a, that a squad car, popped up. And while that squad car was there, we all ran into our cars and broke out. Otherwise, I mean, who knows what would have happened? Cause you know, as far as those guys were concerned, we were, we were crips or something like that. You know what I mean? So there was no, there was going to be no mercy there. They would have asked questions after, or maybe not even ask him.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. Wow. So you leave 25 to life again, everyone check out the Joe hardcore. They get into all the details, but, uh, You joined Marauder. What was it like playing with Marauder circa 97?
SPEAKER_02:It was cool, man. When I left 25 to Life, I wasn't sure if I was even going to continue doing music. I figured I was going to take a little break. A few things ran to my head. I think at the time... At the time, I was thinking of going to try out for Machine Head. I was like, maybe I'll go do that and move out to Cali because I liked Cali so much. But what ended up happening in the time was I remember Drew Stone called me up because Marauder was going through some bad times. I guess a few members left and that Five Deadly Venoms record was about to get released. But that was actually the pre-production demo for the record. That actually wasn't the record. And I was asked to join so that they could do a U.S. tour, I believe it was with Earth Crisis, for that record, you know, to try to help out with the hype. And it was cool, man. I loved it. I already knew those guys. I've known those guys forever. They've been going to shows as long as I was. You know, I knew I knew Jorge before he was a marauder and Saab, you know. Geez, I've known Saab since I was probably 13 years old. So I remember going to, I was living, I want to say I was living in Jersey at the time with my boy Loki. And what I ended up doing was I ended up staying at Saab's house for like two weeks to learn the music. And then I went right out on tour, you know, for about two weeks with, I believe it was Earth Crisis and War Zone. And that was a good time. I love that record. Actually, I was hoping that with me in the band, we would have recorded a real version of that record. But there was too much arguing going on in the band. The guys really weren't getting along. Jorge had left right after the tour, left the band. And Saab tried to restart the band with Eddie singing. And I think Eddie was a great vocalist. I mean, I love Eddie. But I wasn't really interested in doing that type of death metal type music with Eddie singing. I mean, kids love it these days. But at the time, I was like, oh, I don't know. I kind of want a more harsher voice. And I really wanted to do it with Jorge. So I ended up bowing out. And I think they ended up playing a few shows with Eddie. and um like i said you know it seems i've heard from some people that that they like it as much as all the other versions of marauder so i mean who knew
SPEAKER_03:yeah i don't i don't have a ear that good right like i i like a big nice recording you know so it's so hard to compare anything to master killer
SPEAKER_02:it is yeah master killer is a masterpiece you know they they uh They went hard on that one. They went in there. They had Paris produce the record. You could tell there was a lot of attention to detail. Those songs have been practiced and practiced and practiced. A lot of them were on the demos, so those guys knew what they were doing. Five Deadly Venoms is good, but you could tell they weren't ready. Like I said, that record wasn't supposed to be the record. That was their demo. I'm sure that had the band stayed together and they would have went into studio and actually recorded the record the right way as a record, then you would have heard something at the caliber of master killer. But I think the label was like, Hey, you know what? We're going to put out this demo because we haven't received the record from you guys yet. And this is going to be it, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. And it's four years later. Right. So like there has to be some momentum that got killed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, exactly. But imagine that. I mean, there was good songs on that record. It was the right production. That would have been the last great Marauder record.
SPEAKER_03:For sure. I mean, they're kind of like one of those big what if bands, right? Like what happens if Marauder does follow up Master Killer two years later with like a record that's like the same studio quality and they tour constantly? Like what do you think happens?
SPEAKER_02:I think the band would have got even bigger. I mean, they had Pokey on drums. When I was in the band, we had Joe from Darkside playing drums, which was still good. I mean, if anything, maybe it was more of Joe's speed anyway because he was more into the metallic stuff. But I think Pokey did an amazing job on that demo. And we had Mike from Candirion bass. which was great. He wasn't in Candiria yet, but he knew he was going to be already because he used to talk to me about it all the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Those first couple Candiria records are out of this world.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah. I go back with those guys, too, because doing the death metal grindcore stuff with Asphyxiation, when I wasn't doing much hardcore, I was playing shows with Candiria all the time because they were playing more in the death metal circuit back then. I remember asphyxiation, candaria, and human remains. We'd be playing a lot of builds together in the local area.
SPEAKER_03:Beto, I don't want to go too much into your time in Madball because I want to do a whole episode on Hold It Down. I previously did a whole episode on Set It Off, and I think that this is another one that we should give that treatment to because– I mean, it might be the best Madball record. You know, if I didn't have sentimental value to like the first two, like, and I was looking at it objectively, it's probably the best. Where do you think it fits into Madball's like catalog?
SPEAKER_02:Man, I mean, in my opinion, and I'm, you know, I mean, of course I'm biased. I'm, you know, I played on the record, but To me, it goes set it off, then it goes hold it down. That's my favorite man of all records. And I'm really proud of that record, you know, for a few reasons. I mean, I remember that, like, I loved Look My Way, and those guys did too, but there was problems with, like, the production, you know, they weren't too happy with the way it came out. And, uh, and we really didn't know what was going to happen with the band. When I joined, it was one of those things where we were thinking this might just be our last record. Um, and we were like, you know, let's make, let's make it count. You know, let's make sure that, that this record is frigging hard, you know? And, uh, and I, I think we achieved it. I mean, I had, you know, I, uh, When we were writing it, there was times where I'm like, you know, it was nerve wracking because you're thinking, you're like, all right, I just joined this band and I can't give them the first whack record. I don't want to be on the first whack record. I'm like, that would be terrible. You know what I mean? But, you know, Matty was still there to help us out with it. You know, he produced it. He played second guitar on it with me. And he helped us out with a lot of the ideas on a lot of those songs, you know. And I think together, we ended up doing a really amazing record. The feel on it is phenomenal. We spent, I want to say, if I remember correctly, maybe 10 or 12 days on drums alone to get the feel. And it's not that there was problems recording the drums. It was just that it was one of those things where we figured, let's get the feel right. And then everything else is going to fall into place. And that's exactly what happened. I mean, with guitars, we spent maybe a day and a half. We didn't really go too crazy with the guitars or with the bass. Most of the time, I think, was spent on the feel of the record. And I remember Freddie did his vocals twice. He wasn't happy with his first take. He went back in there and killed it. And I'm proud of it, man. I think it still sounds ferocious when I listen to it this day. And it sounds freaking big. I mean, there's four rhythm tracks constantly playing on that record. And a fifth track for punches and little overdubs. So it's crazy, crazy guitar freaking frequencies flying all over the place on every chord. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:but it doesn't get buried. It doesn't sound like a sludgy mess, which can happen sometimes if you do too many guitar tracks. It's a spectacular record. We should get into it. and dive into it another time. Cause it's a record that it didn't come easy. You guys like had to work at it to make it, you know what it is. And then it's like your work paid off and you really wrote a masterpiece. Right. So let's spend some time on it another time, but let's real quick back up and, and let's just talk about how you joined mad ball. So you, do you join sometime like right after look, my way comes out. I don't, did you, did you tour with them on that record? Cause that's the first time I saw mad ball. They came out here. in 98 and i saw him in santa barbara and san diego on the look my way tour were you playing with him then
SPEAKER_02:i was i joined for for the touring cycle for look my way but i think that those two shows might have been matt henderson uh
SPEAKER_03:yeah yeah he was still playing i didn't know if you if it was a five piece i couldn't remember that was that earth crisis blood for blood and uh scarhead tour
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah. Matty did a few of the tours right in the beginning. And then he stepped down. I had already known that I was going to be in the band. Matty already knew. He already had asked me to take over. But what I did was I waited for them guys to come back home so that I could jam with them. We were jamming as a five piece in the studio because I didn't want to just learn the notes. I wanted to see how he played it, all the nuances and all that stuff. So I would jam in the studio with him. And then I'd jam just me and Matty. And I wanted to know, hey, do you rake this note? Or do you pick this note? Do you palm mute this note? What are you doing? And I didn't want it to sound any different. And I'm sure it's still, you could probably pick out a few things that would sound different. But the main thing that I wanted was I didn't want the band to skip a beat. I wanted the band... to sound like as close to Matty still being there as possible. You know, guitar sounds might be a little different. Like I'll say maybe I get like a little, maybe I use a little more saturation than he does, you know, but as far as the playing, I wanted it to be as close to as possible to him. But right after, you know, Right after doing all those rehearsals with Maddie, then I think the first thing I did was South America with those guys. Then I did a few US tours, Japan, Australia, Europe. Most of the touring for Look My Way was me. And then by the time, it's odd because then something similar happened with Hold It Down where I did a little bit of the touring. but then MITS took over soon after, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. How, how, how was it like writing a set list when you came in the band? Like how much did you want to play? Like what, what was your choice and what was your input into like a set list? Like coming off, look my way coming out.
SPEAKER_02:I, uh, I don't, I didn't have too much of a, of a input in what the set list would be. I mean, you know, here and there I would ask the songs. I remember the song, uh, And this is only on the deluxe edition of Look My Way. But the song, Thinking to Myself, which we did on Hold It Down, I believe it came out as Talking to Myself. We changed the name because it sounded weird. But that was on the deluxe edition of Look My Way. And I remember telling them I always wanted that on the set list, which I think we played a few times. I love that song. To me, it kind of has a weird Killing Time vibe to it that I like. Yeah. But I think the set list mainly stayed unchanged from the way it was when Maddie was in the band. Pretty much the same set list.
SPEAKER_03:I want Streets of Hate on the set list every time. Like that verse is so brilliant. Like the single note. Come on.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was always on the set list when I was in the band, Streets of Hate. We loved doing that. And that's Madball's victim in pain right there.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:It's a 90-second song. The verse is one note. Like, it's brilliant. Come on.
SPEAKER_02:That is, right? And it's like Hoye always used to say. He's like, yo, you can write, you know, you can write a song with one note. And I'd be like, get out of here. And he was like, you know, proved it right there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, come on. Beto, you've been great. Thanks so much for your time. Is there anything else you want to touch on before we get out of here?
SPEAKER_02:No, man. No, man. It's been great. Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_03:That wraps the pod. Everyone, there will be a sub stack. There's a companion piece that comes out tomorrow. So you just go to 185milesouth.substack.com. I'm writing there almost every week, if not every other week. So handle business. Also, shoot me an email if you want to talk. 185milesouth at gmail.com. We don't talk about this much on the pod, but I'm two years sober right now, which is pretty fucking crazy. And if you're going through problems and stuff, you're a fan of the pod, I can talk to you about that, whatever you want to talk about. But get at me via email. Don't fucking DM me. What's going on, guys? But we are on the socials. It's 185 miles south on Instagram, threads, Twitter, all that. But if you want to get in touch with the pod, it's 185 miles south at gmail.com. Handle business. We love you all. We will talk to you again next Monday on Patreon.
SPEAKER_07:Now!
UNKNOWN:Now!