185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
227. March 2024
We're back and talking hardcore. This week on the pod:
1. Does 25 Ta Life suck?
2. New stuff: Split System, Night Fever, The Chisel, Dynamite
3. Poison Idea's 1985 comp songs
4. Finnish Hardcore Starter Kit with Daniel from Sorry State Records/Scarecrow
5. Top 10 Nardcore records post-1987 with Fred Hammer (It's Alive)
6. When Discharge played Los Angeles in the 1980s with Big Frank
Check out the website for our playlists, links, and and if you like what we do, SMASH that Patreon button:
185milessouth.com
We are also on substack:
https://185milessouth.substack.com
Finnish Hardcore Starter Kit Playlist:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTelYRGBafdiFc-k9txj2Nap9QXlx0iUE
The Chisel photo: Maik Seehöfer
185 miles south dot com
SPEAKER_07:smash that patreon
SPEAKER_06:button 185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast. What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we are back and talking hardcore. Helping out, you know him, you love him. It is the best dressed man on the pod. It is Daniel Sant. What's up, Dan?
SPEAKER_02:It's all messed up. Someone's snitching on the crew and word on the street is they got pictures of you.
SPEAKER_06:Also up and out. Six foot two. What are you going to do? It is the mighty, mighty Posse Chris. What's up, Chris? What's cracking? What is cracking? All right, everyone. It's been a long time since we did a mail bucket episode, and we're not going to do it today. We will open that up at some point in the future again, and you guys can shoot everything. We'll answer everything here and probably do an overflow on Patreon. But I did have multiple people, for whatever reason, in the last couple weeks hit me up. Because we do the 25 to Life stuff on the trivia when we do it, and a few different people were asking me, Two questions. First of all, are we making fun of 25 to Life on the trivia segment? And then also, does 25 to Life suck? And I wanted to answer that as a longtime fan of 25 to Life. Mindforce just recently did a 25 to Life cover I saw on the internet. Much respect. And are we making fun of Rick on that? Yes, of course. The voice is ridiculous, but I love it. You know, I like hardcore that goes for it. Right. And hardcore that is not for everyone. You know what I mean? Not everything is like set up to be commercial or like for mass appeal. And I just like that wild shit where like when someone's going to hear it, they're going to be like, what the hell is that? That doesn't make any sense to me. That's garbage. Right. But some of us, like we got like a screw loose or something and we hear it and we like it. You know, I love that wildness. And so, yeah, I mean, we're making fun of it in a way because it's ridiculous, but it's like, With love for the records that I like a lot. And tomorrow on Substack, I'm going to put out a 25 to Life cheat sheet. So you all know what's good, what isn't great, and where to start. Because it's one of those things. If you're trying to get into 25 to Life and you listen to the 93 demo right away. First of all, I think those songs are pretty sick. But the recording is pretty rough. So if you're like a... you know, a 19 year old kid getting into hardcore, you're used to like super pro recordings is probably not going to resonate with you, but strength of unity and keeping it real. Like those two records, like those are very modern recordings and great songs. And like they hold up today. And like those two albums, I'm going to ride for them forever. Those are great hardcore records. All right, Dan, you want to speak on this at all? Or should we move on to talking some new stuff?
SPEAKER_02:Well, yeah, First of all, can I get the 25 to live cheat sheet, please?
SPEAKER_06:You're going to tomorrow subscribe to that 185.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, the real cheat sheet, like lyric sheets. No, but for real, like this started out as being like the most hilarious endeavor and hilarity. And then I decided to try and, you know, hedge my bets a little bit and start listening to it more. And I'm telling you, it's an acquired taste because you start out going, Oh, this is so fucking ridiculous. This is blah. You listen to it like four or five times in a row. And you're like, you know what? There's something about this, not all of it, but you know, like what Zach said, like certain, the cream rises to the top in, in their catalog. And like the two records he mentioned, uh, you know, it's, you got to be in the right mood for it. Zach's in the right mood for it all the time, but some of us just got to be in the right mood for it at the time. And it, it's, uh, it's not bad, you know? And also once, uh, OMDB was playing Baltimore, Rick to life was at the show. And I was like, yo, this one goes out to Rick to life. And he's literally walking out the door. He goes, yo, like he, he leaned back with a peace sign and, And then kept on going
SPEAKER_06:while he was walking out while you played the sick. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And he just was psyched on the shout out, but I was psyched on the ridiculousness of the whole thing. It was awesome.
SPEAKER_06:Chris, if we converted you to being a 25 to life fan,
SPEAKER_03:dude, I mean, I was a 25 to life fan early. Um, they were never like one of my favorite bands, but like, like I picked up the demo and, uh, I think the Come and Correct demo around the same time at some record store in Philly on South Street. And I used to listen to that demo all the time, the 25 to Life one. Come and Correct one I would mix in a little bit. But yeah, the 25 to Life one definitely I listened to all the time. I don't know. There was something about that band in that time. Like a lot of the hardcore that was coming out I guess a lot of the hardcore that was popular at that time was pretty safe sounding, whether it be just really clean sounding stuff that was coming out on Victory, like Snapcase and stuff like that. And I don't know, 25 to Life was just so grimy sounding. It didn't really sound like Agnostic Front, but to my ears at that time with what was going on, it seemed like it was like the second coming of agnostic front, you know? So like me and my friends all loved it. So sick.
SPEAKER_06:All right, dude, you know what? We got to do this one time. What's up? Dude, it's all for pride and bragging rights. Dan heads or tails? Tails for whales. It is Tails. We're going to give you each two shots at it before you both walk away the loser. And here we go, Dan.
SPEAKER_02:This is an easy one. Can I hear it again, please? Do I only get to hear it twice and that's it?
SPEAKER_06:You can do it a couple more times and then you can pass or you can take a guess. You won't lose. It'll come back to you if Chris doesn't get it. Okay.
SPEAKER_02:Play it two more times. All right, here you go. I've got to pass. It seems like it's one word, just go in. i can't hear any like differentiation
SPEAKER_06:all right here's two times for you chris here we go dude i gotta say this is fucking bullshit that's why i ran this one because like i i know like the the key right and there's no way he's saying this
SPEAKER_03:it sounds like he's starting it with it's a shame man something something something oh
SPEAKER_06:okay we might be getting somewhere might be getting somewhere
SPEAKER_03:we can dan and i can uh use the power of the edge to piece it together that's right
SPEAKER_06:okay let's uh let's go back to you dan i'm gonna play it twice and you take one more shot at it
SPEAKER_02:all right Well, I think Chris is onto something with, it's a shame that you can't go away. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm really stuck. No idea.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, Chris, you want to take another shot at it? I'll play it two more times for you. Here we go.
SPEAKER_03:It's a shame that things are getting ugly.
SPEAKER_06:I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So it says, here's what it says on the lyric sheet. It says to you, friendship means nothing. Use us to get your message across, but there's no way. So you guys think he says it's a shame. And I'm thinking, he says, you used to say instead of to you. So I think he goes, used to say that friendship means nothing, even though on the lyric sheet, it says to you, friendship means nothing. And you guys think he's saying it's a shame that friendship means nothing. Maybe that's, maybe that's a shot at it. I don't know. Here we go. Everyone come up front. Sing along.
SPEAKER_02:Jesus. That second line is just mumbo jumbo. And I'll tell you this. I do know the record it's on, though.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I mean, I'm pulling everything off the LP at this point, Dan.
SPEAKER_02:It's on friendship, loyalty, commitment. I know that. That is correct. That is correct.
UNKNOWN:That is correct.
SPEAKER_06:All right, let's get into some new stuff. Dude, this last four weeks has been wild. There's so much stuff. I want to rail off some shout-out stuff, and it is all in the playlist, 185milesouth.com. Click that playlist link at the top of the page. Check out the music that we're talking about. Also, you can just find us on Spotify, 185milesouth. Let me run through this stuff. First of all, big attitude. They put out a three-song digital EP called Pray For Me. It's Zach from PSO on vocals. Lemon Grove neighborhood, San Diego. It's cool. It's Ramones-y. Also, the band Strangle. They put out a seven-song self-titled digital record. They are friends with Friends of the Pod, Chain of Dogs. So, you know, we got to represent for Kathmandu Valley Hardcore. What's up? Also, that Bloodstains LP just came out, self-released. It's like sold out everywhere. Thank God, Bedge went to that show, grabbed me a copy. Much respect to Bedge. Much respect to Bloodstains for the sick-ass LP. You know what it is. It's 1981 OC. Also, a band called Blind Solution put out a 4K 14 songs, seven inch. I believe it came out the Friday before this aired. We're recording in advance. So I couldn't tell you for sure. Uh, seven inch called hang me high. Uh, yeah, dude, 14 songs on a seven inch and it's not power violence. You know, I love that. So super sick. Also, everyone knows collateral. Now we love their demo. It was one of my favorite things the last year. They put out a seven inch called, we still know we'll probably talk about it next month. If we can get to it, came out on scheme and also fortress records.
UNKNOWN:Uh,
SPEAKER_06:You know, it's great. That's all there is to it. Jade Dust put out a new 12-inch Gray Skies, came out on Extinction Burst. If you like Revolution Summer, you know the band carrying that flag is Jade Dust. And finally, out of Oxnard or Ventura County, it's Ceramic. They put out a Life's So Bleak EP, came out on Delayed Gratification Records. Everyone check that out. Check it out on the playlist. One last thing before we get into it.
SPEAKER_01:Hey. It's me, Carl, from the band Sharp Tongues, out of Gothenburg, Sweden. I just wanted to say that we just put a new single out. It's from our upcoming record on UH. And also, unlike Stefan, I always appreciated the way that you and the guys pronounced antisemics.
SPEAKER_02:Yo, this episode may as well, like, with what we're about to talk, might as well be like the year-end, like, record of the year. Like, this is heat.
SPEAKER_06:The first thing I want to get into Is out of Melbourne, Australia A band called Split System They put out their second LP Aptly titled Volume 2 Came out on Legolas Records in Australia Came out on Garner Records in the United States And came out on Drunken Sailor in Europe February 9th, 2024 God damn, dude I I was pretty worried about this record, to be honest with you. I love the Volume 1 record that came out in 2022. And then they put out that 7-inch last year. It was like a two-song 7-inch. And I think it was a pretty big whiff. Not that it was bad or anything. It was just pretty mid. Because what this band does so good is they have these nice little twangy guitar hooks. You know what I mean? And then leading into great... uptempo songs, you know, that are like relatively catchy. And so I was pretty bummed on that seven inch, to be honest with you. But then at the end of the year, they hit us with that single alone again. And it's one of their best songs. It's like the dude just goes for it vocally and hits it out of the park. And I listened to the hell out of that song, you know, and then I knew it was going to come out on this LP. So it's like, then you're kind of up against it. How, you know, in modern hardcore, like everyone puts out like three singles, like before the record comes out. And sometimes it can fuck up the flow of the record. Cause like you're used to the single. So it's very hard to settle into the LP, but like, this just really works, dude. Um, I'll get into a little more, but I want to hear what you have to say first, Dan, what's up.
SPEAKER_02:I think this is an incredible LP. I think the sound that they're going for is they're perfecting and they are, um, taking it a step forward. I mean, the first song, The Wheel, you know, we always talk about track ones always being incredible. Well, here's another record that starts with one. This thing's so amazing. So this is so catchy, but so punk at the same time, and also almost like pre-punk to an extent, all rolled into one and just... The amazing part of like not doing the most melodious style of singing, but still being so tuneful and catchy. That's the beauty of this guy's voice. It's so good. It's almost like, you know, you've referenced them as being like Radio Birdman-ish or the Saints-ish, you know, and it just has that talky, singy voice. That just works so well over. And then, like you said, it's the riffs that are just matching the tuneful hands off. tunefulness of the vocal the guitar riffs are really just bringing that to the party like they're really carrying the real tunefulness and um the twanginess of this is just so good the recording is perfect this is this is one for the ages it's a really really great record my favorite song is the wheel but i really love you know they've got a song about man city on air called the blues And that last song, Underground, is so good. But really, you can throw a dart at any of them. The second song, Dave, is great. Alone Again is the one that was previewed. So like, as Zach said, sometimes when a song has been the preview track, you're like, okay, now it's a skipper. Not Alone Again, you're there for it every time. Yeah. This is an incredible LP. I really enjoy it and I heartily recommend it to everyone.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, they set up Alone Again so nicely, right? Because like you said, that first song, The Wheel, is so sick. And they just give you out the gate, like on the one. Exactly what you're looking for, right? it was really nice to like sit with a record before I had it digitally. And so I listened to it a lot and I listened to it, how I used to listen to records a lot, which is like play side a, like five times in a row, then play side B like five times in a row. And dude, side B is just something special. You know, it's like, you know, if you love my logos of college and you have it on vinyl, like putting it on side B and having it be like suburban home, like, you know, like that feeling when he dropped like the needle on like a sick ass side B, like that song, the blues is so good, you know, and it starts outside B and then Dan called out underground the very last song on the record. I mean, that might be one of my favorite songs of the last five years. It's like everything I'm looking for in a punk song, like so catchy, but so raging, like the down strumming as fast as it could possibly be without cheating and going up and down. Like it's out of this world. I mean, This is everything I was hoping it would be and knocked it out of the park. What do you think, Chris?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, I totally agree. This record is so good. The production just like it works so well for them that, you know, the guitars just clean and crisp. Then the vocals kind of contrasted or scratchy, but not like, I don't know, not like echoey. They're scratchy and crisp, but they just sound dirtier than the guitars, and that works really well. And then the bass sounds great, especially when it's alone with the drums, like the beginning of the song, The Drain. And then the guitar leads, they really rise above everything. They're so catchy. And Zach, you said this. It's like, what makes this band great? It's their signature. But they also do a lot of other things well. There's some killer vocal hooks on this. Minor, minor, just not even criticism, but I want to call this out because I'm going to hit it again when we talk about another couple records. But it's a little on the long side, 11 songs, 33 minutes. But for some reason, it doesn't really feel that long to me when I'm listening to it, unless I'm paying attention to it. I think maybe the tempo is... that this band rides, it's just like such a, it's such a vibe, you know, like you just kind of can put it on and vibe with it in the background. Whereas, um, you know, we'll talk to other records on this that I do feel are a touch long and they're both like so aggressive that you kind of feel maybe a little bit worn out by the end. Whereas this, you're just kind of like vibing the whole way. Um, but all three of them are, are about the same length. Um, But that's, again, a minor knit. Everything on this is super tasteful. The vocals are a bit snotty, but not overdone. The vocal hooks are catchy and memorable, but not cheesy. The drums are pretty straightforward, enough to make it sound crisp and simple without sounding lousy. basic. And then there's little tiny rolls and fills here and there, little flourishes that show you he's got the chops, but isn't afraid to just sit there and carry the beat. And then the guitar leads, they're everywhere, but never to the point where you're like, all right, man, give it a rest. They're all exactly what you'd want. And then you guys both said it, but I want to hit Alone Again again. This was a single. We all loved it. But it's worth calling out. It's such a great song. And that guitar lead is such a brain worm. I was listening to this while I was running today, this whole playlist. And then throughout the rest of the day, I just had that guitar lead stuck in my head, just humming it over and over.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. So sick. Yeah. Yeah, I called it out being like Radio Birdman meets 1981 OC meets something a little more modern like The Marked Man. But yeah, this is great. Everyone check it out, Split System Volume 2. All right, we got to go into Night Fever. Dead End LP came out on Svart Records February 2nd, 2024, straight out of Denmark. Dude, they put out two big singles last year, Killing Floor and also Lone Wolf. There might have been a third one too, but those two were like... What the
SPEAKER_03:hell? Yeah. I think, I think rot was like the B side maybe for killing floor.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Yeah. But those two songs were like tentpole songs the last year. Like, I don't know what this is. I don't know if I was asking for it, but this is some wild ass shit that has to be mentioned. Right. You know? So Chris, you were in love with this band. How do you think this LP held up to your expectations?
SPEAKER_03:I really like it. Um, You know, my initial impression when I first heard... This band's been around for a long time, and they just recently came on my radar. But Killing Floor was the first song I heard. And if you listen to the Super 7 that we did for the end of the year last year, it was probably my favorite song of the year. But my first listen was like, huh, this is interesting. I don't know if I like it, but it's something. Yeah. And then by the end of the song, I was like, wait, I think I do like that. Let me listen to it again. And like, by then, by the time I was done listening to it the second time, I was like, oh yeah, this rules. And the LP is kind of like that too. Like it, you know, it's funny. I was, I was driving when I was in Seattle was a couple of weeks ago, I was driving with a friend, a fellow hardcore lover. And, you know, I had this in the background while we were just kind of chatting like you do when you're with friends driving and, and, uh, But at one point he just kind of like stops and he's like, this is kind of crazy what we're listening to. And I'm like, dude, it's, Totally unhinged. And then we turned it up and listened to it and got to focus on it together. And he was into it as well. But yeah, this will probably be one of my favorite LPs of this year, I think. Sounds awesome. The recording's really good. Works for them. Bunch of diversity on the record, but it all shreds. If you haven't heard us talk about this band yet, which we've done quite a bit, or you haven't heard it. It's like a beautiful, insane mix of RKL, Ignite, Youth of Today, Poison Idea, and Judas Priest. And that mix should absolutely not work, but somehow it does. You know, Ronnie Little said, don't mix an acid with a base because it'll blow up in your face. And I feel like Night Fever is just like in the lab throwing all these beakers of acid acids and beakers of basses together. And yeah, it's certainly explosive, but it's great. And then everyone in this band is super talented, absolute rippers. It is a touch longer than I prefer my hardcore records, you know, my ADD brain. It's 12 songs, 32 minutes, but it rips so hard. It's a minor critique. And I'm not sure like there's a song on it. that I'm like, oh yeah, that song could go. They're all rippers. Maybe take a few of them off and put them on an EP and you have perfection. But I don't know. I like it a lot. I'm going to hit a couple, a few highlights real quick. Numb the Pain, the third track, they go... The first two tracks are pretty raging, hardcore thrash. And then Numb the Pain is like... speed hair metal. I mean, it's still hardcore, but like, it's almost like you're, you're pulling out a skid row 33 and you know, you throw it on the record player and you don't realize the record players on 45. That's kind of the vibes I got, but, uh, it's such a great song. Amen. The song. Amen. Holy smokes. A song rips. It's like, reminds me of Zeke a little bit, like how fast it is and how much, how much it riffs. And then there's like some real capo growls in there. And then like, The leads that are on the bridge out are so sick. Up the Wall, when it kicks in, and the singer is doing that thing where he's not really writing the beat. He's just ranting over the music, and it's not on beat, but it sounds unhinged, and it's awesome. And then the chorus, you drive me, you drive me up the fucking wall. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, almost every song are highlights, to be honest. I'm not going to go through all of them, because... I don't want to be here all night. And then Killing Floor, track of the year for me last year. And it's all the way towards the end at track 11. So you got to wait a little bit to get it. But you're rewarded when you get there. I love it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I think this thing is great. Totally delivers. And I'm with you, dude, on when he hit Soul. like that song or the, the lyric soul on numb the pain, my soul, you know, it's like, Oh my God, he went there, you know, like these dudes can never be accused of not going for it. You know, they're going for it and they're putting down something sick. Uh, but yeah, that song numb the pain into lone wolf is like a sick ass one, two. Also, uh, the song by the throat plotting down tempo banger, you know, which, uh, is pretty necessary if you're going to do a record of significant length you got to change it up a little bit and uh they did a great job with that also just want to call out like you know i'm with chris like what he was saying like that potpourri of bands like is pretty much what i feel as well although on this lp i feel like they are pulling from a little bit of like the burning spirit stuff out of japan there is some like triumphant guitar work on here you know like that is a little bit like, uh, the B side of death sides record, but on the possibility, like that song, fight your way, you know, like something like that. Yeah. So I think that's in here too. And like, that's something I didn't see coming. And I think it's pretty sick, dude. So yeah, I love this thing. I think it's sick. It's about as wild as something can be and have me like still be on board for it. You know what I mean? But I respect the hell out of it. Dan, what do you think?
SPEAKER_02:So this wouldn't necessarily be my thing. And I tell myself that as the ridiculousness of how amazing everybody in this band is at what they do. The singer just is going for it, incredible voice. Guitar players are just showing off in a brilliant way, not in a let's ruin the song way. They're just writing riffs that are just right, you know, the marshmallow falling off the stick, you know, right there. If they went one little bit further, it'd be like, oh, come on, but they're doing it just perfect. You know, a little bit of Maiden in there as well. I tell myself like, oh, this is not really my thing. And then I just find myself enjoying it so much. Like every song, I really like that song that you called out to by the throat, like how it starts like with the bass and it's, it sounds like a different band at first, you know, it's like, like the bass is like hard and then it, it, it stomps, but yeah, it, the song dead end that starts the album just comes out and it just grabs you by the throat. And this, this band does not let up like across this whole LP and the recording is perfect. The playing is beyond perfect. And this is, there's no one that sounds like them, like in a, in a fantastic way for them. They are very catchy, very, um, and very tuneful all at the same time while also being hard as shit. It's great. It's really enjoyable.
SPEAKER_06:Everyone check it out. The band is Night Fever. The LP is called Dead End. It came out on Svart Records. And I ordered one about a week ago from Sorry State. So they got some in from Europe. So handle business before they're gone. Okay, let's go on. This was a big one, dudes. The Chisel put out their second LP, What a Fucking Nightmare. Came out on Pure Noise February 9th, 2024. Straight out of London, England. Dan, what do you think about this one?
SPEAKER_02:So their first LP, Retaliation, was a big favorite from most people that appear on this pod for that year that it came out. And I like this LP even more. And not consistently. I think as one... one piece of an LP there is maybe too many songs on this on What A Fucking Nightmare but the highs on this record for me are so high I think they're really some really great songs on this some really good lyrics too I think where the chisel is the best for me is when they are really in the 77 meets Oil Lane but I still do like their really harder songs as well that are a lot more like kind of Oi Meets UK 82 meets Hardcore. Those ones are really good too, but I really enjoy when they get to spread their wings and really bring us those amazing 77 to No Future records, like leads like but they're not like a lead like a solo it's like a guitar like lead riff that is just just giving you what you want and I think Cal's voice sounds really good there's certain songs where he's really pushing it going up to a higher register to be very tuneful on on certain choruses but it's still a hundred percent it's not like I'm trying to sing here it's like no I'm tunefully yelling in a higher register that's making this really catchy. My favorite songs on the LP, I mean, I really love Lion Little Rat into Bloodsucker. We talk about a one-two punch on the other LP. That's an amazing one-two punch on this. And then the last three songs, it's so rare these days that you get to the end of a record and there's amazing songs at the end. Sometimes people will hide things further down the LP. The song What Do You Mean and the guitarist Chubby is doing a low vocal that is so catchy as a refrain and it is so good. And then the song Cuts Like a Knife might be my absolute favorite on it, which is, you know, talking about not giving into hatred being whipped up in the way society is like pushing people against each other. And I think the song is, is brilliantly written and I think it is so catchy and great. And then of course they brought back what I see. And I think it, I think, you know, we were demanding it. So it came back and it is a different recording. Maybe I prefer the flexi, but I'm not sure. I love to see that this song can have more legs here and more people can, can hear this brilliant song and it ends the LP. I think this is, this is a really, really fantastic record. And I'm, I'm psyched. And it is amazing to hear all your music with, uh, you know, a Northern accent singing. Well, shout out Menci. Obviously, Angelica Upstarts did that. But lots and lots of classic OE music has Southern singers, and it's great to have a Northern voice on what will probably be a pretty classic band in this genre in many years to come.
SPEAKER_06:I think the first thing to call out is just Cal just has a generational voice. It's so good. And you know, he really does push it on here. They put out that single cry rise out. Uh, it's like an older song. They redid it last year and put out as a single. And like, His range on that is so good. And Dan, you're right. It's not like he's trying to do a falsetto like the other Cal in 1986. It's more like when Greg Graffin pushes his voice all the way in those late 80s, early 90s bad religion records, where it's just all the way straining, but so tuneful at the same time. I've talked to a few people that have said that they didn't like this record as much as the last one. And so I went in with that in mind. And I don't see it. The only thing that I would say that I don't like about this record as much as the last one is I like the way that the hi-hat and the snare sound on the last one a lot. It's like more of a driving older punk sound maybe compared to this one. This one has a little cleaner production. But really what I'm here for with the chisel is like... those big sentimental songs. You know what I mean? Like off of retaliation, I'm here for like retaliation, not the only one tooth and nail. What was mine? You know what I mean? And if I'm, and if I'm looking for those kinds of songs, they're here in mass, you know, cry your eyes out, living for myself. Ain't seen nothing yet. Those days. What do you mean? Cause like a knife and what I see, right? Like it's here. What I'm looking for in the chisel is here. Cal's voice sounds better than ever. Those leads are, Like the little subtle leads, like, especially when the, they're like backing up the scene is very special and they can still do like the great hardcore punk stuff. Like retaliation surprised me in the way that it was so hardcore heavy. And like, that was cool. Even though that's not my favorite stuff they do. It was like, God, damn they play hardcore punk well and they still do on this you know like fuck him was a single uh dan called out a couple songs like no gimmicks that first song is a great hardcore punk song and it sets right up into cry your eyes out and that's another thing i want to say is like i love that this band has like a certain amount of bravado which is like really what i want to see in punk and hardcore like cry your eyes out you know it's like a song they did before Then they re-recorded it as a single last year. And now they put it on their LP in the number two slot, which is pretty insane because it's a song that's been out. But if you know you wrote a song that dope, just slide it right in, dude. It's very similar to Split System putting Alone Again right there in the three slot. So I think this thing is great. Much respect to The Chisel. They're one of the best punk bands in the world. And yeah. And it's sick seeing them slide into some of those bigger lineups with the legacy bands because at some point, Punk's got to figure out how to make some new stars or the whole thing is going to fucking pop. You know what I mean? What's going to happen when all the first and second gen bands are unfortunately no longer with us? So it's sick when I see those big lineups and I see the Chisel is the one band that's under 60. So that's that. Chris, what do you think?
SPEAKER_03:Let me start with a couple of slight nitpicks, and then I'll get into the good stuff. Discuss this with the previous two records we talked about. It's a little bit long for my taste. Again, ADD. I'm a modern hardcore kid in a cell phone era, so 36 minutes is a bit long, but that's... down the long list of things that are big drawbacks or something. Like Zach said, the drums feel a bit buried to me, but the vocals do sound, and you guys both said this, but I called this out in my notes as well, the vocals sound awesome. They're super crisp and biting, and Cal's voice is just legendary. He sounds so mean. You know? Yeah. But so those two like knits aside, like this is still really, this is really good stuff. You know, I think you guys both called this out, but I also added, you know, finally they listened to the people. They put what I see on an LP. This is a great track. One of their best songs. Cry your eyes out. I also put same thing as you guys said, you know, one of my favorite tracks by them and probably one of my favorite tracks on this record still, although, you know, Maybe that will change as I give this record some more play and some of the others start to become more familiar and resonate a bit more like Cry Your Eyes Out, which is a song I've listened to a kidjillion times. They do some really cool things on this record. Almost every song, there's at least one point in the song where I kind of stop in my tracks and be like, oh, this is really cool. You know, whether it be like a really cool guitar lead or a catchy vocal hook, a piano part, or like, maybe this is crazy, but are those bagpipes in those days?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it does sound like it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, or like an organ or something, but they're buried just enough so that it doesn't sound like... I don't know, like Dropkick Barfees or something like that, but it sounds cool. Dan mentioned this as well. I feel like I'm just repeating everything you guys said, but the one-two of Lying Rat into Bloodsucker is so sick. Lying Little Rat is such a mean stomper, such a catchy vocal hook on the chorus, and then Bloodsucker, just a raging, pissed-off song. I ain't seen nothing yet. Starts so cool with that guitar riff and the vocals and the chorus is like super catchy. This is another total hit. Evil by Evil. Oh, what a hard ass song with a catchy chorus. So yeah, good record.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, you know, you call out the length of the record and I would just say if I was in a nitpick, some of the singles or the standout tracks for me, like maybe... I would cut them just a tiny bit if I was being super discerning, like ain't seen nothing yet, you know, and it cuts like a knife. Like they're so good. You kind of don't want them to end, but like, I think that they'd be songs where if you cut a little bit off them, maybe I'd like want to play them six times in a row, but I don't know. The, the engineer dude is a guy from fucked up, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. The production is incredible.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. But like, but what I'm saying is like, I don't think that that engineer is going to like, have the advice to like trim a song when he's putting out like 12 minute punk songs you know so like maybe maybe just like you know get the dude from infest like to be in the room also so so we like balance each other out you know I mean that'd be it but otherwise spectacular writing a second LP so hard and chisel knocked it out of the park in my opinion all right straight out of London England once again we are going to talk dynamite the EP is called blow the bloody doors off came out February 23rd 2024 on quality control and all Also, Northern Unrest. Dan, you wanted to speak on this. What do you think about this record?
SPEAKER_02:I fucking love this. A lot. A lot. Yeah. This is like channeling, locking out Righteous Jams, stuff like that, but run through like kind of gritty UK hardcore world. I don't know. It's just like this perfect mixture of First song, Blow the Bloody Doors Off. So good. Sam from The Flex singing on the end just adds just such a meanness and a stomp. I found myself chicken-necking my name's Jeremy Lux to that song. Just full on. Next song, War Inside. This song... absolutely rips the riff is incredible um the singer's awesome and then seamlessly his voice almost blends straight into graham when graham from high viz comes in and does his guest spot they like the yin and yang that sounds similar to each other but a bit different sounds so good and then um the dude from cold world comes in and just bodies the song. It's just such a great song. Next up, Dynamite Stomp. This song might be up there for Riff of the Year already, and it has Tom Violent Reaction come in and do a guest blast at the end that just... is so fucking sick. Like everything about this next song, the reason this song is awesome. Again, another amazing riff. And then this thing rounds out on a song called Glory, which also rips. I love the artwork. Big Ben is getting a stick of dynamite shoved up it. It is that perfect blend of like knowing when to sing on parts, when to let these riffs like, break and it is just bringing that 2003 vibe back that basically all the bands in 2003 that absolutely love don't forget the struggle don't forget the streets and outburst it's that was redone in 2003 and now this is being redone in 2024 and it is awesome i this is my favorite kind of hardcore
SPEAKER_03:i love it
SPEAKER_02:chris what do you think
SPEAKER_03:first off Five songs in under nine minutes. Thank you, Dynamite. Praise Jah. Played with them in London. They were great. They had a demo at a time that I thought was decent, but I didn't think it really did them justice to how good they were live. But I do think that this EP hits that vibe. I was super excited to hear it. I don't know. It catches the energy of them live a lot better than the demo does, and I was super excited to hear that. Excellent, fast, E-tuned hardcore with some great two-step tom parts and some bouncy breakdowns. I also caught a bit of the locking out vibes there. I hear maybe a little bit of mindset in the second-to-last track, I think it is. They went a bit heavy on the guest vocals. There's five or six guest vocalists on this, and usually that feels a little bit... overdone, but I think it's cool on this. It's kind of like just a celebration of UK hardcore post, I don't know, 2008 to now. Standout tracks for me, I mean, all of them are good, especially the opening track, War Inside and Dynamite Stomp. Dynamite Stomp is my number one. It's just such a great mid-tempo stomper, catchy vocals that should be big sing-along inducers. Seen it all before. Know the fucking score. In every drop of blood, I will be hardcore. The vocals remind me, the singer of this band, the vocals remind me a touch of the singer of The Explosion, actually. He has kind of a similar snarl, but done over fast hardcore. It sounds really cool. The drummer of this band, I believe, I don't know this for the fact, but I heard it, so it must be true, is the drummer of Basement, which is kind of cool. Yeah, and then the artwork is dope. Big stick of dynamite cartoon character climbing Big Ben and lighting its own wick. Yeah, I like this a lot. I think this is one of the best current roots hardcore bands around right now. And yeah, really pumped on it.
SPEAKER_06:We're at such a saturation point for guest vocal spots. Like that stuff really pulls me out of this record. And like, you know, everyone on their own, I think has a really good voice and it's cool. And I get it. Like, it's fun to have a party record. It's just, I don't really like fun, hardcore music. And so like all the changing, like really pulls me out of it. And, and like the vote, the voice I like the most is the singer of this band's voice. Like, I think it's pretty spectacular. Like he's got an awesome hardcore voice. I think the lyrics are really good for being like a straight over the plate, hardcore band. Um, I like the song lengths. I like the EP length. I like the drums are recorded a little weird because like at first I was like, the drumming kind of is not good. And then I listened to it closer and I was like, Oh, actually the drumming is really good. It's just, it doesn't sound great. Like, cause this fills are like really sick. And like the songs are well put together, hardcore songs, but like, I don't know. The guest vocal thing is just, it's, it's too much for me, dude. Like, and again, I get it. Like you want to have your friends on records. Like I never really did it much before, but like the last retaliate record, like I had three, I think, but if I'm being honest, like that's cause I was like straight up out of ideas. So like, you know what I mean? It threw some people on to bail me out. So I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I get why Dan loves this. Cause like, this is like right in your, your stuff. And like, I think it's like pretty good. It's just, I think it would be better without all the, guest vocal spots, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that's what I think. Dan, you disagree?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I can see what you're saying, because we can point to the Pain of Truth LP being nothing but guest spots, and that did take me out of it a little bit. But with this, I think the guest spots are just on when the song changes to... different riffs or like goes to the stompy like hard part and then a different vocal comes in and i think it works in that sense and i really like the sound of the recording on this i think it works really well i take it as a whole i wasn't like drilling down on the drums um but i yeah i can i can see why that would do that to you but also i know you and i know like when things become like trends in hardcore, it also pulls you out just mentally before you've even like, you know, and, and rightfully so if something's getting tired, it's getting tired. But I think it really works on this personally. I like it.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:I wanted to touch on one more poison idea segment. So we've done the first seven inch. We did the first 12 inch. And now what we're touching is the four 1985 comp songs that came out. They were all on later presses of the record collectors are pretentious assholes LPs. But here they are. Pull them off. Laughing boy from the drinking is great. Seven inch came out on fatal aggression records. 1985 typical die on your knees. And I got it right. Came out on cleanse the bacteria. Dan, what do you think about these four songs?
SPEAKER_02:Well, let's just say Laughing Boy. Holy shit. What a fucking song. The way that... And then it goes... And it just starts picking up pace. And then you're like, oh shit, what's going to happen? He's going to come in on this. And then that drops out. And then the bass starts. It's like... I really love the structure of the song. And then when it, you know, when Jerry comes in and starts singing, it's just what a fucking track. I know this is probably one of your favorites. You know, I can just imagine, I can see how this is like hitting your sweet spot. Like this song is so good. And then typical, I really enjoyed, like it's a great song. And, but there was nothing like, that made it stand out more. I guess it's a bit typical. And then the next song, Die On Your Knees, the way this song starts is it could be on No Future. It sounds like something from The Violators or something like that, just at the start of UK A2. And it's really good, but the song kind of falls off a bit. as it goes, I think the, the real strength of that song is in the amazing intro. And then I got a right. Oh my God. Why are they coming for me? Like I feel, I feel attacked. I feel brutalized. I feel that, um, the outro is literally saying, fuck you, Daniel Sam, you know, but it's such a good song. The bass sounds amazing on this song. Um, And, and I do love like the contextual like element of it, because did you say this was recorded in 85? Yes. Well,
SPEAKER_06:it came out in 85. So it's 84, 85. I don't know the month.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. For anybody out there that may have listened to that, Ian McKay going through Outer Step being recorded. So this is just a little bit after that. And this is just in the zeitgeist of, of people thinking straight edge, which is, initially was a personal song for Ian that was being taken up by other people around the country, but people also being paranoid, feeling like they were judged. This is the response record, pretty much. Like the, fuck you, why do you think you're better than me? But the original wasn't saying that, but lots of people feel that. I don't know. Great song, though. Really great song. But the ending is triggering.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I mean, it's an Iggy Pop cover, so it's like daunting tasks to take on, right? But they really do it justice. And Jerry A's vocals just being so manic on it, like it just really works. Typical, like this is them, it's total record collectors era, you know, like it's just a mid-tempo sleazebanger. The Die Under Knees is pretty much an opus, you know, like it's a rager, like starting out with like that up-tempo, mid-tempo into a fast part and into that long down-tempo part. So ill. And then bringing it back to that up-tempo, mid-tempo at the end. Laughing Boy, though, is a top five Poison Idea song for me. It's just straight-up perfection. And one of those songs where if I was going to play someone five songs of why I love a band and be one that I include. So, uh, hell yeah. Uh, this was fun and we're going to the big one next time. Kings of punk 1986. Chris, you got anything on these?
SPEAKER_03:Uh, I mean, just in general, I want to say like, I've really enjoyed kind of experiencing Dan's journey through poison ideas catalog. And, um, I think, you know, one of the beautiful things about hardcore and just about good music in general is like when you experience a special band for the first time and, and, you know, you get to fall in love with them. And when, when someone that you love, you know, a friend, family, like experiences that, that band and discovers it and, and recognizes the greatness of it. It's kind of like you get to relive that a little bit. So I don't know. It kind of maybe reminds you of some of the things that you started to take for granted of, you know, to a degree of listening to it for so many years. So yeah, just enjoyed these segments. And can't wait for the next one.
SPEAKER_02:That's so wild that it's an Iggy Pop cover because I didn't know. That shows how much they made it their own.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, everyone enjoy this Poison Idea journey because after we're going through 40 UK subs albums in a row for Chris. So that's going to be a long process.
SPEAKER_02:And then we're doing No Effects with Zach. Oh,
SPEAKER_06:yeah. Zach's doing Converge. Oh, yeah. Either way, I kill myself by the fourth record.
SPEAKER_00:You know something? You're not a kid anymore.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, no. I go to
SPEAKER_00:shows.
SPEAKER_07:Dad, I already know all this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Well, they don't teach you about everything at shows. Okay, Mr. Smarty Pants, so just listen. When boys and girls get a little older, they start getting interested in punk and hardcore subgenres.
SPEAKER_07:Get out of my town!
SPEAKER_06:What's up, everyone? We have Daniel from Sorry State Records and the band Scarecrow to educate me and you possibly on Finnish hardcore. We're going to do a Finnish hardcore starter kit. Daniel, thank you so much for doing this.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm a big fan of the pod. I'm stoked to be on.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, dude. This is like... the true punk shit, you know, where like sometimes I'm up against it, you know, like, cause a lot of these bands, their catalogs are so big. Like I don't know where to start. And so it's just a daunting task, right? Like imagine if you're a kid getting into hardcore in 2024 and like, you know, someone's like, Oh, you should check out AF. And that's all they tell you. You know, it's like, how can you attack getting into agnostic front in 2024 if you've never heard of them before? So, uh, I, I found your list vital. Like this was so nice to like break into it. And yeah, I think the best thing to do, let's just get started. Let's give us an overview on Finnish hardcore. What's up, dude?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So, you know, I guess I want to say right off the bat, like I'm not Finnish. I didn't live through this stuff. Like there are people who know way more about it than me. So, you know, hopefully I'm qualified to give the starter pack version. But it's, you know, you kind of point to... One thing in your introduction that this is a really well-documented scene. It sort of reminds me of DC in that way, like tons of bands released records. All the bands on this playlist have multiple records in their discographies. Um, so there's, you know, there's a lot of one and done bands too, but it's just a really like rich scene. Uh, and I, I think it's, it's really unique to, um, some of that I think comes from the Finnish language, which often the, the native language will like color, you know, music in general, but certainly punk rock from different places. And, uh, you know, Finnish has a lot of sort of like nasty guttural vowel sounds, a lot of like ass and, and hard And stuff. So it's a language that I think is, is really well suited for hardcore. Um, and then another thing I really like about Finnish hardcore is that I think it retained its roots to seventies punk a little bit more. Um, so I think you see that in the bands I chose for the playlist, they're all sort of like, uh, Well, maybe not all of them, but I sort of lean toward the catchier, punkier stuff. There's certainly plenty of really raw, nasty, Discharge-inspired stuff, but I like that so many of the great bands have really strong hooks and memorable songs.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, with you saying the scene was so well-documented, we should say that a lot of this stuff is... is still available. Like there are represses of a lot of it. So that's such a nice thing about this. And also just as a precursor, before we dive in, we are going to mispronounce everything. So people don't get at us. This is, this is brutal. So we're going to try our best and put ourselves out there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It's, it's one of the toughest things about being in a Finnish punk is pronouncing things.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, for sure. Let's dive right in. So we got the starter kit going. I put a link. A lot of this stuff wasn't on Spotify, but I didn't want to be limited by that for this because we wanted to have the most crucial shit. So I did a YouTube playlist and it is in the show notes and it'll also be linked up tomorrow in the sub stack. So let's just dive right in. What's the first song here, Daniel?
SPEAKER_05:Uh, the first song is by, uh, chaos. Uh, the first two songs come from the chaos cadgers split seven inch, which is, um, you know, uh, a really early record. Uh, it's from, from 1981. Um, chaos is certainly one of the, the best known finish hardcore bands. Um, partly because, uh, their album, uh, havoc records has kept it in print for decades. certainly the past 15 or 20 years or something. So you can still buy it for like 12 bucks from Havoc. But this song is from their first release. And to me, it's just right out of the gate, one of those examples of how gnarly and aggressive Finnish hardcore gets. It's just nasty, particularly the vocals. They're just snarling and so pissed.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. I love this thing. Cause it just, it really seemed it's 1981 and they're just on par with like their DC counterparts. Right. Like maybe not minor threat. Who's like maybe the greatest band ever, but like this outside of like that first yell and like the, the initial little guitar hook, like this could be SOA, like this is right there.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, totally. Yeah. And I think a lot of these finished bands too, they, they, You know, these records were really early and they kind of got out there. So, you know, I don't know if you've seen they recently came out with this book about Swedish hardcore called Raw Punk. And, you know, the Swedish early Swedish bands were getting these Finnish records and I think inspired by them as much as the D.C. stuff. So it really put its stamp on what kind of European hardcore would come to be.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, this is spectacular. This is a great song to kick off. And I love that it's a split to start it with. So let's get into the Cadgers song.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So Cadgers, after this record, they changed their name to Restitute and put out a whole bunch of records. And Restitute is probably a band you've heard of if you know anything about Finnish punk at all. This is their first release. And they're, I think, a really well-matched band with Chaos. It's It's super gnarly. I think the discharge influence is a little bit more apparent on the cadre side. It's like a little more just like straight discharge and doesn't have that like little bit of sort of punkiness or whatever that I hear in chaos. But it's, you know, it's it's broad, nasty. early eighties, hardcore. It's basically like the shit I want to hear, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. It's so over the plate. Like both these bands, this is so good. And one of the things it's funny to be like a, an audiophile on like early eighties stuff, but like the snare on this is just so sick. Yeah. It's just super deep. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:The, the, yeah, you know, not everything got a great recording, but a lot of stuff did. Um, you know, I'm a big fan of early eighties recordings where they went into a studio and maybe it's, it's sort of minimal for a studio setup, but hi-fi, you know, compared to a lot of like DIY stuff. Um, and it just, it, it portrays the bands, how they sounded, you know, it sounds great.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. There's, there's more to it than just charm though here. Like these are like, this is really good. This, this band is sloppy at this point. But like, but like, yeah, the spirit is coming through and I love the recording.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. And, you know, both of these bands, they're really, really raw and really direct at this point, but they both put out a whole lot more records and, and grow and change a lot. Um, and like restitute, I think they get better than this. So they're, their first LP, it kind of continues along that discharge path, like a little heavier, really straightforward and brutal. But then by the time they get to their second album, Schizophrenia, they bring in a lot more like UK82 kind of hooky stuff. It almost sounds more like the appendix stuff that's later in the playlist. So if you like this, definitely continue with the band's discography. They just get better.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So sick.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, let's go back a year to 1980. And I'm not even attempting to pronounce this name. You got to go first.
SPEAKER_05:Turvit Cadet. So this is a song off of their first EP, Rock La Hausta Vastan. It's about the best I could do. I kind of debated about whether Turvit Cadet or the Chaos Cadger split should come first because the Turvit Cadet records come a little bit earlier. Um, but you know, me and my friends kind of talk about whether, which one of these is kind of the first true Finnish hardcore record. And to me, that first Turvy Cadet EP, it sounds like hardcore to me. Um, you know, no one I've said this to has ever agreed with me explicitly, but, uh, these first two EPs, they really remind me of Because you can really hear that it's coming from the first wave of UK punk, but it's turning up all the knobs. It's like, oh, what if we made it faster, crazier, more intense? And it's really over the top, especially the vocals, how he's just sort of snarling and coming off the beat. It's crazy. Kind of reminds me of some of the Italian bands and how it's kind of loose and just nasty.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's a good point. This is a 30-second mid-tempo song, which just in theory is so sick, right? To keep everything so short. And the singer is completely unhinged. You're right. This sounds to me like Poison Idea circa 84, four years before that happens. Yeah, interesting.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, it's wild. Yeah. Yeah, and this was just a one-sided EP, so it's incredibly rare, but it's a very short record. And then the next song I chose is from Aratanjulu, which is their 1982 7-inch. And they're Turvi Cadets' first two EPs. They're kind of of a piece. Yeah. You know, they have a really similar sound and they have that kind of punky energy. And then to me, everything just kind of snaps together on Aratan Julu. And they almost sort of get in the league of like minor threat to me. The music is more precise. You know, they're kind of executing like really tight, catchy little changes. And this song has that like cool little lead guitar in it. You know, to me that this is like one of the great international hardcore punk seven inches.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, this is so much more in the pocket. I mean, it's a two-year gap, which is– that's light years when you're young. Yeah. This rips. This rips. And the singer, he– I do love the first seven-inch because his voice is just so in the gutter. But here, he's making his way out of the gutter. He's not as wild anymore, but still just a great punk voice.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose I should also mention– Another interesting thing about Turvey Cadet is they use a lot of this dark S&M imagery. I've heard that the singer is involved in that scene beyond just punk. This record has this really classic cover with the singer bound up, hung upside down, and there's a lit candle inserted into his asshole. It's pretty crazy.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I mean, like that, that's part of the UK, you know, that early connection to write sex pistols, x-ray specs, like all that stuff. And, and carried on again, like to circle back, like it runs through poison idea too. Right. Rubber husband. Of course. There's like zero chance that like poison idea, notorious record collectors, like aren't listening to this stuff.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. You know, I was going to mention that since we mentioned poison idea twice already, but like, if you read Jerry's books that just came out, he name checks, finish hardcore quite a bit. And, you know, particularly llama, he always mentions as one of his favorite bands.
SPEAKER_06:Sick. So we should say that this third Turvique cadet song I added. So if everyone hates this song and this is an outlier on the catalog, blame me, not Daniel. Yeah. This came up when I was shuffling through this stuff. This song is just some wild-ass shit that I love. It's a 35-second song. It just starts with a pretty sick, straightforward, hardcore riff, and then a drum fill, and then this short verse, and then it does that tom fill again, and it just fades on that. It's one of the most psycho songs you could come up with. I would have loved to hear the conversation about their angle for creating this song. It's fucking wild.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I'm, I'm really curious about that too. Um, and I, I think it's a good moment to kind of pluck out to you because for me, uh, you know, after that third seven inch trivia cadet changes drummers and their, their next drummer is a little less groovy. Um, and then the, that LP is really, really long. So it kind of, uh, It kind of gets all mushed up. It doesn't have the same kind of peaks and valleys as the EPs. So it's cool to pull out a moment that shows them at their best, I think.
SPEAKER_06:Also, one of the things in the international hardcore scene that is different than USHC by 1984 is it doesn't seem like it says paint by numbers. I don't think you'd see a band– do this like on the US side. Like this is just like a wild ass concept. So it's so sick.
SPEAKER_05:You know, one band that I can think of that does it is on raw power screams from the gutter. One of my favorite moments on that, like the music stops and there's this lead guitar break and he like starts with this crazy bend and it sounds like he's going to, you know, go into a crazy solo. And then it just, you hear them like turn the fader down and it goes off. It's a very like similar moment that I just like, What, what did they not like about that solo? Like why'd they, why'd they cut it out? It makes me so curious.
SPEAKER_06:That's true. Yeah. I mean, like they could have kept recording and it fell apart or something. They just couldn't get through it. I, I was friends with this band and like right around 2000, they were pretty sloppy and went and recorded. And it was a time when you couldn't punch in on drums, of course. And they just, they had this song that was just fast for like two minutes. So there wasn't like parts that could break it up and they couldn't make it through it. And I was like, dude, just fucking end it with an explosion.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So they just edited it in like an explosion, like at some part.
UNKNOWN:It's like, well, that's where the song is.
SPEAKER_05:Sick.
SPEAKER_06:So sick. Okay, let's go on to Radis.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, Radis. So they have a huge discography, and they're another really early band. So this track is from their fourth EP, Rejoiteteux. Something like that. So their first two EPs are definitely coming from more of like a 70s punk place. The first EP is 79, which is just nuts. But then on this fourth 7-inch, you hear them just go full discharge. And it's just gnarly. Someone was actually telling me the other day that this– One before this, Ratus on Rauta, which that song is kind of like a Cockney Rejects type like Terrace chant. I always heard that Ratus on Rauta means Ratus rules. So kind of a silly thing. But apparently they were going for Discharge on that record, but it didn't quite come together. But man, it comes together on this record. And to me, Ratus... They have one of the most unique sounds. They have this really sort of stiff groove to them that I think when I first heard them kind of turned me off because, you know, I generally like bands that are kind of more in the pocket and groovier, but they just make it work for themselves. And it has this kind of like almost industrial vibe to it because it's so... sort of regimented in its grooves and then you know they they obviously like are taking from like why and hear nothing see nothing in like the crazy guitar overdubs just you know that's something they kind of return to again and again on a bunch of their records is just you know extended guitar shredding
SPEAKER_06:this first track is so sick it's just like in the pocket discharged to me with like i mean the thing that makes it unique is there's kind of like flamboyant like rolled R vocals. I don't know how to describe that. Yeah. Like he's very, it seems kind of flamboyant, which is like a nice flavor on it. Let's jump forward to the song from 1984. This is so sick. Cause I like when people get more psycho as they age, you know, like a lot of like civilians, like, you know, you get softer as you age and, and more friendly and approachable. And, you know, like this is two years after like, the last song that we talked about. And it's just like a 24 second blazing hardcore song. And the singer just like found his way into the gutter. This is so sick.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I think, I think this is, um, a, a different singer, um, at least for, for part of the song. So, um, I think, I think between these two records, like their roadie, uh, join them on vocals. And then he, he sings on, uh, the rat cage LPs that, that came out in the U S also. Um, and he, he kind of has that more of that unhinged style that trivia cadet has. Um, but yeah, they, they really, uh, It's funny because like I said, their groove is so tight, but they really get looser in their song structures as they go. And they're just more willing to sort of like zone out on a riff and see where it goes. You know, I think they're taking a lot from like the reprise of why on that 12 inch, you know, that it's almost sort of where discharge almost pushes into like a psychedelic kind of sure arena.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's go on to Lama.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. So llama, you know, I, I kind of always cite them as my favorite Finnish hardcore band. Um, and you know, me and one of my friends, we were talking and he kind of doesn't even really consider llama hardcore. Um, he's like, they're, they're just punk, you know, and maybe they are, but they, you know, they're another, again, very early. Their first seven inch came out in 1980. Um, and this, which song did we put first? Well,
SPEAKER_06:okay. So this is another mistake. Or actually, I think we can both take responsibility for this mistake. So you made a typo in one of your emails to me. And so I put on the Jesus song and the second song. And by the time you said you didn't want the Jesus song, I was too pot committed. So I was like, we got to roll with it. And it's kind of cool because it is a little different.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, they're certainly different songs. You know, Tava Yusta is maybe not a representative Lama song because it's so much faster than their other songs. And it's really hardcore. Both of those come from their LP, which is 1982, I guess. And, you know, I guess they do still have a lot of that like UK punk hookiness in them. But to me, they always reminded me a little of Minor Threat. They have a lot of like, you know, just kind of delicate uh i guess arrangements like little stops and starts and kind of flourishes that like uh really like sink the hooks in um and make the songs really pop i think you you hear that on these but then on the song pasca the next track um that's like one of my favorite finnish hardcore songs it's it's so anthemic and it's just it's great
SPEAKER_06:Sick. Yeah, let me jump into the two off the 12-inch first. The first one, the Jesus song, the verse to me, again, I'm seeming like I don't have that many reference points, but this just reminds me of 84 Poison Idea, which is so sick. And then the chorus, why I wanted to keep this on the playlist too is it's weird in its anthemic nature. It's not like a shouty soccer match chant. It's more like it reminds me a lot of like that earth ball sports tournament paint box, like LP interesting, you know, like this seems like they listen to this. Like it's, it's very anthemic in a weird, strange way that like, I've only really heard on that stuff. So I don't know. I just wanted to name check that. Cause it's, it's kind of a weird reference point. And, and obviously like, you know, paint box fan of the genre. You know what I mean? There's no way they hadn't heard llama. Um, for sure. And then on the second track, like the fast one, I wanted to just note, like, it's pretty long for like a hardcore song is two minutes of 30 seconds. And how it seems to me is like, it's just like a UK 82 song, like on speed, right? Like in the way that they just take one riff and milk of the hell out of it and just, you know, turned up to 11. Like it is so sick. And like the way they do that little break in the middle of the song, like you think it's over and they just come back in. They're like, we're only halfway done, bitches. You know, it's so sick, dude. I love this. Let's go on to the next one off the, the 81 seven inch, the Pasco song.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. I mean, you know, it's just, it's a sing along, you know, Pasco, Pasco. Yeah. I think, you know, like you were saying, I think there is a lot of like, uk82 and this and like a lot of those bands um there's a really sort of good simple song at the core of it and then it seems like they devote their energy as a band to sort of amplifying that and sort of you know making sure each part kind of hits with the impact that it should it's just a masterpiece of a song i think
SPEAKER_06:yeah for the top 100 hardcore songs of the 80s i pulled the title track off this record because it is just so tuneful. And like, that's maybe my favorite shit is just when you have like these tuneful yet dirty songs. Yeah. Yeah. I love this so much. And, and for everyone, if Google translate is correct, Pasca is shit.
SPEAKER_05:Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Turvey cadet has a song called pieces. Yeah. Pasca piss and shit. They recently made some like, underpants that they've screen printed piece on the butt.
SPEAKER_06:Very punk. Okay. Let's go on to appendix. This is the one band on this list that I had never heard of. And I think it's my favorite.
SPEAKER_05:Oh, I, I love appendix. Um, you know, maybe some people who are, uh, you know, have a different relationship with this to me would, would think it's like a slightly left field pick. It's, it's much later than the other records, but from the moment I heard appendix, I was just in love there. I mean, they sound like just a totally classic punk band with all the energy of hardcore. Um, their vocal melodies are so good and their, their riffs are so hooky. They're just, um, Yeah. They're just great. They, they put out two LPs and a seven inch and the whole discography is, is just gold. Um, and also they just, uh, recently toured, uh, in the U S and I got to see them twice and they were great. They sounded exactly like the records. It was, it was killer. And then there's these old Finnish guys. Um, one of the shows was outside and they're all like smoking cigarettes while they're playing and taking shots between songs and stuff. It was, it was so sick.
UNKNOWN:Okay.
SPEAKER_06:The rules. Jump into the first song.
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Hora is, it's kind of the anthem, I think, of the appendix catalog. They made it the A side of their seven inch. I think Hora means whore. So it's maybe not politically my favorite song, but it's just, it's so catchy. And it has a kind of like blitz-esque quality to it, I think. It's kind of... you know, mid paced and, and in the pocket and like the baseline is super strong. Um, just a really great anthemic punk song.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I mean, they could be calling politician horrors, who knows. So, uh, we'll just go with that. Uh, yeah, it is a total mid tempo banger. And I just wanted to note how bright yet savage this recording is. Like this thing just sounds great.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:All three of their records have really strong recordings, like a big kind of Marshall type guitar sound, um, which really works well for them.
SPEAKER_06:Hell yeah. Let's wrap up on a song off their 12 inch from 82. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:So this is the first song, uh, Kuatinkin Kulame, um, off of their first LP. Uh, it, originally came out in finland and then um it came out with an english title money is not my currency that's another reason i think a lot of finnish stuff kind of got around in the 80s is a propaganda records had a licensing agreement with rock-o-rama in germany so a lot of these records got repressed in german editions and then i think rock-o-rama had pretty good distribution in the u.s so a lot of people were hearing this at the time but um yeah this this this song, I, I just love this riff. The like, it's, you know, just a simple, like single string thing, but it's, it just sticks in your head. It's to me, it's like, uh, just a great album opener. I've always loved this song.
SPEAKER_06:There was also a dude in San Diego. I don't have his name right now, but, uh, he ran a thing called bad compilation tapes. Yeah. Early eighties. And he distroed a lot of the finished stuff too. So, uh, Shout out to him. I
SPEAKER_05:got to get a pod at some point. I
SPEAKER_06:don't
SPEAKER_05:remember. Don't remember his last name, but yeah, BCT is huge. Very important.
SPEAKER_06:Um, okay. Let's go into the, that last song here. This one to me, uh, it was pretty sick. The pulled because, you know, a lot of the DB stuff, it gets named checked as like having heavy motorhead influence, which is true. But sometimes I feel like you have to squint to see it. This is like, this is just motorhead to me. It's so sick.
UNKNOWN:Oh,
SPEAKER_05:Oh yeah. That riff is total like ace of spades.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love this thing. What do you love about this?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. It's to me, it's just, it, it has such a strong melody. Um, you know, it's, and even though I don't know Finnish at all, like I, I can sing cool. What is it? Cool. You know, it's, it's gibberish to me, but like it's tattooed on my brain. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_05:And I love like the, you know, where the guitar intros coming in and the vocalist just goes, you know, kind of sets it off. Like it's yeah. Great stuff.
SPEAKER_06:Daniel, I think you did a great job. Like for me personally, it was so nice. You plucking off these tracks, like I said, on the front end, really giving me a place to start because I, Now I have my favorite songs off here and I can dig into those albums first. This has always been a pretty big blind spot for me and I've been looking for someone to hit me to it more so. And yeah, I just think you did a great job. Do you have any final thoughts on this first wave of Finnish hardcore?
SPEAKER_05:Yeah. Well, one thing we didn't really talk about is that there's a lot of great compilations that came out in the eighties of a Finnish hardcore. So, you know, if you're kind of looking for your next steps after this, there's the Russia bombs, Finland compilation. There's another one called Yalta high life and another one called Finnish spunk and hard beat. These are all like, you know, they have a lot of these bands and then a lot of smaller bands that'll sort of lead you down various rabbit holes. And then particularly if you like the more kind of discharge inspired bands, end of this stuff um there's a bootleg compilation called killed by finnish hardcore that came out in maybe like the early 2010s that is you know it's wall-to-wall bangers and has a lot of really super obscure bands so this is this is a very deep scene so if you hear stuff you like here um you know dive in because there's so much more great stuff to hear i
SPEAKER_06:love it thanks so much for your help daniel
SPEAKER_05:Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_06:Everyone, handle business because half this stuff is available at Sorry State Records. So sorrystaterecords.com, I believe. Is that correct?
SPEAKER_05:Yep.
SPEAKER_06:Sorrystaterecords.com. I know you can get that llama discography, which is essential for the collection. So handle business, people. Thanks, Daniel. Thank you. It's Alive!
SPEAKER_04:And man, I just loved it. I just loved the fanzine. I couldn't play any instruments. And I said, I think I can do this. So me and my friend Mark Noska from Ventura, we came up with the idea and the name. And a lot of people think it's the name came from a blast song or Ramones song, which isn't true. We just we just made it up. And We got it going, and then he lost interest after, I think, before the first issue even came out. So, 1986. And then, you know, I've been doing it all this time, off and on, and I have a new issue out, number 21.
SPEAKER_06:How long since you did your last issue, number 20?
SPEAKER_04:I think, like, 20 years. Over 20 years.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what inspired you to do an issue now?
SPEAKER_04:There wasn't really any big inspiration. Just, you know, I try to keep involved as much as I can, going to shows, talking to people. And I always have a huge archive. And, you know, no real reason. I just wanted to do it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, so sick. And after doing one after this time, all this time, how happy are you with how it came out?
SPEAKER_04:Man, I'm really happy. By far, this is, in my opinion, the best issue yet. I went to a professional printer. For people who know the auto trader, it's one of those places. So it's that format. It's 100 pages. And I printed 5,000 of them. And yeah, I'm really happy. I'm really happy with it.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, it's newsprint. It's like the MRR. Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Everyone, if you want more of Fred's story, he's in those 185 archives. So handle business. Episode 24, we do a full episode with him. And then he's also on episode 48. So handle business, get in those archives. And while I got you, Fred, what I wanted to do was dive into... let's do a top 10 Nardcore records post 1987. And here's the reason why I took post 1987. So going back to the classic Nardcore run, it would probably start with the ill repute seven inch and the aggression LP. That's 1983 and 1984. You have the ill repute LP, the doctor, no LP, the solid 13 LP. Also the NARD core compilation. Uh, you also have the false confession and RKL seven inches and 84 and 85. You have a scared straight and a rat pack, seven inches. You have the RKL first LP also in 85. And then things kind of start getting a little barren and, uh, kind of the last hurrah of that first generation NARD core, uh, is that RKL second LP that came out in 1987. So I wanted to pick your brain here and I love lists. So I had you make a little list, not in any particular order, but let's get into your top 10 Nordcore records post rock and roll nightmare. Number one, and you said number one by far, Annihilation Time, self-titled LP, 2002 Dead Alive. What's up, dude?
SPEAKER_04:I mean, I mean, I don't really know what to say. You know, I sang on that album. It was it was great times, great memories, had really fun recording that album, learned a lot. And I think it brought a new genre to Ventura County and Nardcore. And, you know, it just moved forward. You know, I plan that album and I'm really happy with it top to bottom.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and everyone, I'm just joking. Fred didn't want to put this on the list. I made him because I love that bravado and hardcore. You know what I'm saying? It's got to be here. It's got to be on your top 10, dude.
SPEAKER_04:Thank you.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, if everyone gets the repress, there's a long write-up from Friend of the Pod, Bedge. So check that out. Okay, let's go on. Scared Straight, their LP, You Drink, You Drive, You Die, 1988, Mystic Records.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's another Mystic release. I believe, don't quote me, but I believe the guitarist, Dennis, he was going to school in Northern California and he walked into a record store and that album was sitting there. So I don't even think the band knew that album was going to be released. But, you know, it's an awesome LP. It's sort of overlooked. It's a little hard to find. You know, it's just... I think it's sort of outtakes here and there, like different Mystic Studios. But, you know, it's a great album, and that band doesn't give as much credit as I think they should. They sort of get overlooked. But it's a great album.
SPEAKER_06:It's got moments. That song, The Edge, is super sick. And, yeah, you know, this band turns in a 10-foot pole, and that first... All LP they did as 10-foot pole rev. I love that thing to this day. Yeah, that thing rocks. Yeah, sick. Okay, Making Me Blush, In Control of the Truth Hurts, Indecision Records, 2003. Why this one, friend? I mean,
SPEAKER_04:you know, like most albums we're going to talk about, they're friends of mine, and that just holds a special place in my heart. But man, that album just really brought Oxnard together you know that album came out and kids just lost their mind and you know it was just oxnard hardcore pride and um i love the cover art and you know the record label it's on indecision records and i love you guys and you know just top to bottom that record just rules
SPEAKER_06:hell yeah okay moving on to stand your ground self-titled seven inch came out on jitsu records 1998
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, that's sort of a sleeper, you know? So the history of that band, I was in a band, SYG, and I believe you guys asked me to use the name, then you made it Stand Your Ground. And, you know, that's just, you guys, the whole band just had, you know, just so much heart. Just, you know, just, I don't even know what to say. Just, you put on shows, put out flyers. you know, had that band and you were just living it. And I love that seven inch, you know, it's, it reminds me, it reminds me of when you guys were in high school, just, you know, living it, just living it 24 seven.
SPEAKER_06:Hell yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't play on the demo. That was Max and who else? Oh, Max and Corey. And then I came in on this, on this seven inch. So, all right. So I got nothing to do with the name. We got to leave me out of that. Okay. But yeah, yeah, yeah. It's sick. Sick name. And SYG from the localism comp, much respect. Okay. Retaliate coup d'etat. This is the first 12 inch came out on indecision records in 2006. So,
SPEAKER_04:so funny story about that record. I was doing a lot of commuting at that time and I got the CD and I would play it in my car, just driving for hours. And man, that record's just hard. Like, I would drive and literally just, like, punch the steering wheel.
SPEAKER_07:Literally.
SPEAKER_04:Just punch the steering wheel. And man, it's just angry. And, you know, I just love it. And that song, Know Your Roots, is on that record, correct?
SPEAKER_06:It's on the next one.
SPEAKER_04:Next one, okay. But... Yeah, it's just I just love that record. It's just it's just hard and angry. And, you know, like I said, punch the steering wheel when I'm driving.
SPEAKER_06:It's funny. Right when that record came out, we were at at the beachcomber and I ran into Todd's brother and he was just horse collaring me and fucking yelling at me. I didn't know you had it in your brother.
SPEAKER_04:Well, if he gave it the stamp and if it made him angry, it's the real deal.
SPEAKER_06:That's right. Okay, this is one you did, Blasting Concept, self-titled 12-inch, It's Alive Records, 2010. Yeah,
SPEAKER_04:that's sort of, you know, people call it sort of stoner rock, but I don't know. Those guys are very talented, and to me, it's one of those records, I mean, I love that record. Like, just, I did some backup vocals on it, and I was there when they recorded some of it, and they're nice guys. very talented guys. They lived that band and worked very hard. And I just think it's one of those records, you know, I wish more people would hear it and just, I don't know. I just wish it would have went, you know, a little more popular, but I love that record.
SPEAKER_06:it's a total package, right? Like the, the art on it is sick. It's on a big, nice 12 inch. The sound matches like the art. And it's kind of like what you're saying, like that, the sound of like that first annihilation time kind of infiltrating Ventura County and never leaving. Like this is kind of an extension of that a bit, I would say.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like they're almost like, like little brothers.
SPEAKER_06:Hell yeah. Okay. We're going on. This is actually the, First piece of vinyl I ever bought. No Motive, self-titled 7-inch. It came out in late 95 or early 96. No one knows. On It's Alive Records. What do you think, Fred?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so that's a funny story. The drummer of No Motive, Pat Pedraza, a good friend of mine, I went to Oxford High School with his older brother. So I'm not exactly sure how I heard of the band, but, you know, Like, hey, we got this little band. Check us out. They practice in a bedroom. And I'm pretty sure I told the band, hey, you should check out this dude, Max McDonald. He's a good guitar player. So I believe his father gave him a ride over there. And they were just jamming. And I'd already done one release, the half-off 7-inch. And I was like, you know what? You guys are rocking. Like, let's do a record. And I still had no idea what I was doing. So... You know, we got everything together. And I remember me and Pat drove down to Bill Smith Custom Records in El Segundo, California. It's not there anymore. But I remember they put the test pressing on the record player and it was being played. And Pat looks at me and he goes, is that my band? It's really on a record? I was like, yeah. And, you know, we just we just went from there. And, you know, great guys. And it's a man. It's a it's a great seven inch. you know just sort of the you know influenced by fat records and those bands good riddance and fast and just these kids didn't really come from like the punk hardcore scene had their own flavor and um yeah i love the seven inch
SPEAKER_06:yeah it's really fast i wish it existed online somewhere so people could hear it it's kind of uh lost to the internet there everyone get on discogs and get yourself a copy um Okay. Burning dog, the last day's CD. It came out on edge records, 1997. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Again, those guys are friends of mine, you know, and, um, you know, they're just, I call them like the, the blue collar band, you know, they go to the show, bring in a sack lunch, you know, they're, they're not eating sushi down the street or driving, you know, a nice van. They're just blue collar dudes and work really hard. And, um, Yeah, that CD, I'm not sure, but I think it has a lot of demo songs on it, sort of a mishmash. But yeah, I love that CD, man. It just screams Oxnard.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, they just did a discography last year on Findaway Records, so everyone handle business. You can get that there. It's funny, your write-up, you said the same thing there. You're like, you know, some bands, you know, they take a bus to the show, and, you know, these guys take a sack lunch. I thought you were fully at a setup. You know, some bands take a bus to the show. These dudes take the Greyhound bus to a show.
UNKNOWN:You know what I mean?
SPEAKER_06:Yep. But yeah, everyone, this is episode one, The Legend, Joe Rivas' band, so check it out. If you didn't get that discography last year, handle business, Findaway Records, This shit kicks ass. Okay, moving on to Downpresser. The Perverted Justice 12-inch came out on Street Cleaner Records in 2008.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, just, you know, that was always sort of like a sleeper band to me. You know, I'd see that band around, hear about them. But, you know, when I saw them, I'm like, holy shit. Like, this band just terrorizes. You know, just, you know, at the show, it just makes me want to punch walls. Like, great band, great record. And I believe, did Todd Jones put that out? Yeah,
SPEAKER_06:that's a Jones label.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so, yeah, that's Todd Jones label. So I'm always supporting Todd Jones. So, you know, that was cool. My friend put it out. this band rocks. And, you know, just little things. Like I remember, like I had a book release at Pepe's Mexican food at Silverstone beach and Oxnard. And, um, all those dudes from the band came down to support her. So, you know, just, just cool things like that. So I support them. And, um, I love that record.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Sick. Their first 12 inch. And I think they're like the best Nard band ever, you know, I mean, not from Oxnard, but Santa Barbara, which gets included. Um, just like a fucking murderer's row of a catalog. You know what I mean? And, and yeah, RIP Kale Sane. So, uh, very sad. Um, okay. Wrapping it up on dead heat. Uh, their first LP certain death came out on Edgewood records in 2019. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Just, you know, another newer band, younger dudes. And, you know, I'm all about supporting the new kids and, you know, like I said, I don't keep up with every single band, you know, every single show, but I'd heard these guys from the beginning. And, um, I remember the singer came over to my house and gave me their first LP before that one was like a 12 inch demo with the guy in the cover with a gun. Yeah. And, and, you know, I was like, Holy shit, man, this, this record is really good. And, you know, I, I'd see him as small shows and, um, Just fun fact about that band, the singer lives walking distance from where Kyle Toutcher grew up, where Dr. No would practice in the 80s. And in junior high school, I used to go watch Dr. No practice. So when I found out where the singer lives, I was like, dude, this is just like full circle, you know? it just keeps going and going. And yeah, man, they're, they're carrying the hardcore flag hard and they're just, they're never quitting. They're on tour right now, actually.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. So he lives that close to the garage walrus. What a trip. Um, yes. You know, we always thought that was we, cause Tony used to say like, Oh, my dad used to always go to Dr. No practice and shit. And then when we got that record, we're reading through it. We're like, Holy shit, dude, is Al Molino, the garage walrus.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_06:We can only hope. I know. Well, no, it got cleared up, I think, by Ismael. It was something hanging on the garage of one of the across-the-street neighbors of Kyle. God, I wish it was Al Molino. But yeah, we sang the praises of Dead Heat a million times on this pod. Their success is literally like Christmas for me. I've been waiting for a band to blow up like this out of Oxnard forever. And It's wild to say, but they are the most prolific NARCOR band of all time at this point. When it comes to putting out that many records, that many tours, they've been everywhere. Europe, Japan, US, a million fucking times. All the
SPEAKER_04:big festivals. Yeah, yeah. And the singer always wears a It's Alive fanzine t-shirt, so props to Chris.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, Chris is a man. All these dudes hold it down. You know what I mean? So that's what's up. Also, Vincent, you know, he's like the dude that records all the young bands now. So, you know, really give him back. That's what it's all about. Fred, hell yeah, this was fun doing a top 10 of Nardcore Records post-1987. And let everyone know where they can get the new issue of It's Alive.
SPEAKER_04:You can get it from Revelation Records, Rev HQ. www.revhq.com. Go on there and it's available.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and send Adam Lance an extra dollar. Let's try to get him out of his grumpy mood that he's been in for 20 years. You know what I mean? Let's get Adam some PMA. That's right. Some PMA for Adam, everyone. Shout out Fred Hammer. Much respect. Appreciate you. All right. Thanks, Zach. Before we get into this segment, for whatever reason, I say California all the time when I'm trying to say Los Angeles area, so don't get at me. All right, I am joined by Big Frank from Nemeswitz Records, Cary Nation, and former Golden Voice Heavy. Also, Zedd's Records, can't forget. And Frank, you're one of my favorite guests to ever have on the pod, and I've been waiting for something to have you back on. I saw you in the comments on... Someone was talking about when Discharge came to California, and I think they were talking about, oh, they were sick in 83, and then they were terrible in 86, and you were commenting. I was like, dude, I got to have Big Frank on, and let's talk when Discharge came to California. So thanks for taking the time.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah, no problem. My pleasure.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, so I was able to track down on the internet there was four times that Discharge played California. And so I could be wrong because there's some serious discharge freaks out there. So don't get at me. Actually, get at me politely. I think you're about right. Okay. Here's what I have. Here's the first one. Florentine Gardens.
SPEAKER_08:No, that wasn't the first.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. What was the first?
SPEAKER_08:The first was Santa Monica Civic. They opened for circle jerks and I forget who else. Maybe Bad Brains?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. So here's how it's listed on this sheet. And we should say, like, shout out Metali Promo. They do a good job of archiving all this stuff, the flyers and the dates. So supposedly that Florentine Gardens show was on October 2nd, and then Santa Monica Civic was on October 8th. That could be wrong. I mean, he has some stuff wrong. Who can keep an archive like that? But yeah, that Santa Monica Civic is circle jerks, bad brains, and bad religion.
SPEAKER_08:Circle jerks, bad brains, bad religion, and discharge?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, okay. That, in my... because at the time I was hanging out with Battalion of Saints and there was a magazine that came out called Punk Lives. Like it was all basically English bands and stuff. But there was a picture of the bass player of Discharge in the magazine and he had a Battalion of Saints sticker under his strings on his bass. And I immediately called the band. I go, have you seen this? The bass player from Discharge has got a sticker. And everyone went nuts. So we went down in mass to that show at the Santa Monica Civic. And we all hung out with Discharge. And it was a great time. But I swear that was the first time that I ever saw them.
SPEAKER_06:Well, it's weird because those shows are listed as being six days apart. So they come out and they...
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I think you might have them back.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah,
SPEAKER_08:yeah. Because I remember the Discharge show at Florentine Gardens, too. That was a great show. I used to have a really good photo that Al Flipside took of me singing with Cal, but it's just been lost in the wind. I wish I had it.
SPEAKER_06:Fair enough. Let's dig into them in that order, the order that the Metalli promo guy laid out, and let's see what you remember. Okay, so Florentine Gardens, they're claiming it as Misfits, Crucifix, 45 Grave, and The Lude. What do you remember about that show? And Frank, before you jump into it, what was Florentine Gardens like?
SPEAKER_08:Florentine gardens was, Oh God, how can I, um, Oh, like I'm trying to think of what I can compare it to probably about the size of, um, way bigger than the Casbah. Um, you're in San Diego, right?
SPEAKER_06:Correct.
SPEAKER_08:Um, what's the next place up that you would play after the Casbah?
SPEAKER_06:Oh, I don't know. So, but we're describing like, it's a normal ass club.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty good-sized club.
SPEAKER_06:Right, so it probably holds, like, what, 400 then? Oh, no, more
SPEAKER_08:than that, more than that. No, no, I'm thinking more like 1,200.
SPEAKER_06:Oh, Jesus. So it's like a House of Blues level.
SPEAKER_08:Yes, almost Fenders level.
SPEAKER_06:Okay.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, yeah. Okay. But way safer.
SPEAKER_06:What do you remember of the show? Like, discharge comes out, what's the excitement level? Like, outside of, like, the Battalion of Saints crew, like... Are people freaking out? Because they did all those records in 81. This is 1982. What was the feeling? Yeah, it
SPEAKER_08:was pretty crazy. It was pretty crazy. The peace punk scene and the anti-war thing was really popular. And there was quite a few of us that were quite excited to see Discharge again. And
SPEAKER_06:how wild was it in your mind the first time they played?
SPEAKER_08:Um, if, if we're saying wild by pit standards, it was more of a sing song kind of thing. Like lots of, there probably was circle pit, but I was more into singing with the singer than I was into circle pitting.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Were you working the stage Frank or were you in the crowd?
SPEAKER_08:Actually at that show, I was in the crowd. This was right before I started working at shows.
SPEAKER_06:Okay. Yeah. So then same thing. Do you remember any of the other bands from the Florentine gardens show? Do you remember what misfits or crucifix were like?
SPEAKER_08:Yes, misfits were so noisy. And I was a huge misfits fan. I couldn't tell what song they were playing half the time because it was just a wall of noise. It was really hard to decipher. And I do remember one thing. I was sitting backstage with a girl and just hanging out. And here comes Doyle's guitar, flies over my head, smashes into the back wall and lands at my feet. And I'm just like looking at like, should I take this? Or should I? No, it's like, I'm not going to be able to walk out of here with Doyle's guitar. So I'm just going to leave it. And so that was kind of interesting.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Was Discharge like on that level? Was like the Misfits the most popular by far? Or were like them and Discharge basically like co-headliners?
SPEAKER_08:I would say they were co-headliners. So sick.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. What do you remember about the Santa Monica Civic show? What is the Santa Monica Civic like?
SPEAKER_08:Santa Monica civic was bigger, you know, kind of bordered Venice. So you'd get a lot of the, you know, the suicidal, you know, Venice types that, you know, might be looking for a little more trouble than your math, but fenders that they had those two, um, the Santa Monica civic show, we were so excited to be there. And before I didn't live with the battalion of saints, but I, um, hung out with them, and we met up at the show. But before I ran into those guys, I ran into some kid that thought he was a suicidal tough guy, and he starts talking smack to me, and I just ignored him. But the bass player from Battalion of Saints goes, why don't you shut the fuck up, and just dropped him right on the spot. Oh, that was funny. So then this kid runs off with his tail between his legs, Fast forward to we're backstage hanging out with Discharge. This kid comes up to me with Mike Muir and goes, that's the guy. That's the guy. And Mike Muir just goes, yeah, we're going to let this one go. And he turned around and took the guy away.
SPEAKER_06:Did you know Mike at that point or did he just know you were?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, I knew Mike and Jim. I used to skateboard with Jim a little. Okay. I used to skateboard with Dogtown guys out at parks once in a while.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How about the size of Santa Monica civic? Like, is it, is it a thousand? Is it 2000? What is it?
SPEAKER_08:Two to 3000? I'm guessing.
SPEAKER_06:Oh my God. And how, and how full is this show? Full. Wow. Completely full. Wow. Yeah. And then was discharged the headliner or were circle jerks, bad brains?
SPEAKER_08:I think circle jerks. I was just looking at something. Somebody posted, I believe circle jerks was the headliner.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:But to be honest, after I watched discharge, um, I think The Farts played that show, too. Okay. You know, with Duff McKagan or whatever. The Duff from Grums and Roses was in The Farts. And I think they opened the show. But, yeah, I don't know. I lost track.
SPEAKER_06:So these are the two in 82. What do you remember about this one compared to the Florentine Gardens? Like, what was crazier?
SPEAKER_08:For me, Florentine Gardens was crazier because I was in the thick of it. I was right out in the crowd. And Santa Monica Civic, I was hanging out with a crew, so it was kind of way mellower.
SPEAKER_06:But looking out at the crowd, was Santa Monica wild?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, oh yeah, I'm sure it was. Yeah, yeah. Every show at the Civic was wild.
SPEAKER_06:Fair enough. Okay, so in 1983, they come back one time, and this is at the Olympic Auditorium with Social Distortion and MDC. December 19th, 1983. Were you working the show? Yes. Okay, what are your memories of this? And let's lay out for the people, like, what is the Olympic Auditorium like?
SPEAKER_08:If you take the Roman Colosseum and put a roof on it, that's pretty much it. A smaller version, obviously, but yeah, yeah, kind of like that. Very circular. And just a huge... You can just imagine a boxing ring being in the middle. Sure. And just the place being full up to the rafters, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, this is actually one I've been to before. So I went for wrestling several times. And yeah, it probably holds, I don't know, 3,000, 4,000 people. And it's just like a little mini arena, right? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, super sick. So what do you remember about this show? And has Discharged... They're still sick in 83, right?
SPEAKER_08:Oh, yeah, yeah. He hadn't gone heavy metal yet. They hadn't grown their hair out, and they were still a punk band pretty much at this point.
SPEAKER_06:Right.
SPEAKER_08:And I remember the Olympic show being another great show. I mean, all those songs were untouchable back then. And, yeah, there was nothing that stands out about the Olympic show, but... I think the show after that, I had some more memories, but, um, but yeah, this one was pretty much, you know, average show as, as I remember.
SPEAKER_06:But, but this just goes to show like how much of a veteran you are, Frank, because like, you're like an average show. It's like, it's a fucking punk show at the Olympic auditorium in Los Angeles in 1983 with like three, 4,000 people.
SPEAKER_08:Right. Right. And I just took it for granted because I was always doing it.
SPEAKER_06:It's so wild. Um, Okay, let's get into the one that's pretty infamous. So, September 6th, 1986.
SPEAKER_08:What about Perkins Palace? What's that? Did you... There was a show at Perkins Palace.
SPEAKER_06:There's Perkins Palace?
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, it was, I think, after the Olympic show.
SPEAKER_06:Let me see. Here it is. Yeah, you're right. It is December 17th, 1983. Frank, thanks for checking me, dude.
SPEAKER_08:Oh, no, no. I just remember it. Because this show... This show was kind of a fork in the road for me because I was doing security for Golden Voice, but that was pretty much it. I was just doing security. And at this show, I didn't have anyone to help me. So Perkins Palace stage would go up to about a six-foot person's chin. So it took some effort to climb on the stage and get on the stage. And during this discharge set, I worked the front of the stage by myself And not one person got on the stage during discharge. And I thought it was the funniest thing ever. It became a game to me after a while. Yeah. Just to see if I could keep everybody off. And I did. And after that show, I got promoted to stage manager.
SPEAKER_06:So sick. And that was actually Battalion of Saints playing and Suicidal Tendencies. Yeah. Yeah. What do you remember about this show other than that? Other than you having to check everyone?
SPEAKER_08:Um... Probably, I mean, Battalion of Saints shows were kind of a blur to me because I did a few, quite a few. Suicidal, I don't remember this one being particularly infamous or anything, but it was the Suicidal Show with Toy Dolls was the more infamous one. But yeah, I don't remember this one particularly being anything special.
SPEAKER_06:Okay, let's go on to 1986 Fender's Ballroom. This is September 6th, 1986. They come back, and they're pretty much a totally different band. Is that right, Frank? Yeah.
SPEAKER_08:Yes. No Rainey, no Bones, no Tez. Basically Cal and a bunch of guys with long hair. And I just knew... I had heard the records... I don't know if Grave New World had quite come out yet, but I had heard the direction he was trying to go. And I tried to talk to one of the guys in the band. I think he was either the bass player or the guitar player. I don't remember. But I go, if he starts doing the heavy metal stuff, man, this crowd is not going to have it. I'm telling you right now that you guys should talk to Cal and say, you can do some of that. But man, you better mix in the punk stuff or you're going to have a rough night. So I warned them.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, and leading up to that, was the show going pretty good? It's Cryptic Slaughter, Dr. No, Final Conflict.
SPEAKER_08:Oh yeah, all those bands just played how you would expect them to play.
SPEAKER_06:Right, so they're raging and then Discharge is going to headline. They walk out and they look how they look and what's the reaction?
SPEAKER_08:I think a little bit of confusion. Because they didn't look like a punk band anymore, really. They looked more like an 80s hair metal band than they did a punk band at this point. So I think a lot of people were confused, but I think trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at this point, but as soon as he starts singing, oh my God.
SPEAKER_06:So what breaks out?
SPEAKER_08:He starts singing in falsetto, and I could swear that he sang one of the old songs, but in his new style. And things started flying at the stage. I don't remember what song they were playing, but I just remember shit started flying. I was like, oh, here we go. And I don't think they lasted another song, and they came off the stage and didn't go back on.
SPEAKER_06:Well, so you just got pelted on the first or second song.
SPEAKER_08:Second or third song. It was really, it was really quick. Like it went down quick.
SPEAKER_06:Wow. Wow. And then, then what happens? Like, do people like freak out? It's like, okay, well the show does like these guys just stormed off. Like they,
SPEAKER_08:well, they just, they left and the show was pretty much over. I heard, I didn't see it because I wasn't back there, but I heard, uh, that Cal was in the back just sobbing like a baby. He didn't understand what happened. Wow.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, I'm just surprised that no one thrashed. Huh? I'm surprised that no one thrashed or trashed the place.
SPEAKER_08:Yeah, honestly, it could have happened.
SPEAKER_06:Well, that's five discharge shows in California. I appreciate you running us through it, Frank. You're the fucking man.
SPEAKER_08:Oh,
SPEAKER_06:no problem.
SPEAKER_07:Peace.