185 Miles South
A hardcore punk podcast.
185 Miles South
225. Transcend the Usual
What's up, everyone? We're back and talking hardcore.
1. New stuff: Disguised/Enemic Interior/Bullshit Detector
2. Poison Idea - Record Collectors Are Pretentious Assholes 12"
3. Cover songs with Todd Jones (Nails)
4. Late 80's So Cal with Ron Martinez (Final Conflict)
5. Old School Indiana punk with Yukki Gipe (Repellents/Bullet LaVolta)
Check the website for our playlists, links, and SMASH that Patreon button to keep the show alive:
185milessouth.com
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SPEAKER_05:smash that patreon
SPEAKER_07:button 185 miles south a hardcore punk rock podcast. What's up, everyone? This week on the pod, we are back and talking hardcore. Helping out. You know him. You love him. It is the best dressed man on the pod. It is Daniel Sant. What's up, Dan?
SPEAKER_06:Think twice about those words that kill. This goes out to you and your crew.
SPEAKER_07:That's goddamn right, dude. Uh, It's you and me rolling, well, not solo, but whatever that is, in tandem this week, Dan. So I'll introduce myself. I'm Zach Nelson. Greetings, everyone. What's up? Wanted to dive into a bunch of new stuff because most of this episode is old school shit. But next month, we're going to dive into a bunch of things coming out. Chris isn't with us this month. The Night Fever Dead End LP just came out on, I'm going to mispronounce this, but Svart Records. It's out. Get it on their band camp. I know Chris loves that band, and we all do too. So we'll get into that next month because that LP is something else, and I need a full month to dive into it so we can break it down properly. Also, Split System just put out their Volume 2 LP. It came out on Legless Records in Australia, Garner Records in the USA. and Drunken Sailor in the UK and the EU. I believe the Drunken Sailor press is already sold out. You might still be able to get the other two, but get them before they're gone. I got my vinyl a couple weeks ago. That was sick. They sent it out super early. And this record, Rips, we'll dive all into it next month because it's going to be one of my favorite records of the year. Also, just wanted to shout out a couple things. The Chisel LP is coming out the day after we record this. Excited for that. They're a fucking band that does not miss. So that's sick. Also, the band Clobber, they were a band that Dan loved a lot. They just put out a new single called The Council, A State of Mind. Everyone check that out. They got a bunch of stuff going on. And lastly, a band from Oxnard, California called Centerpoint just put out a really moshy, sick-ass EP called Clean Slate. It's a digital EP, and you can check that out on Spotify and all that. But getting into things, Dan, let's just jump right into some new stuff. The first thing I wanted to discuss was a band called Disguised. They put out a self-titled Digi EP. It just came out this month or last month. And I believe they are from the Jersey Shore. What do you think about this thing?
SPEAKER_06:I'd say put 50 on black. Yeah, this thing... is hard nyhc style straight down the pipe in traditional like great style um i love that the intro has so much like negative space and openness and and the it's like bounce without it being like absolute bounce do you know what i mean it's just giving like the attitude is in all the space of the, um, where the riff is just sustaining. Do you know what I mean? It's like,
SPEAKER_07:yes, yes. I like, I think that that's the best thing about this band is like, they don't feel the need to be constantly riffing and it makes the riff sicker when they come into it. Like they can, they do these like big ring outs and in on the verses of some of the songs too. Like they're just kind of doing chord progressions. Like it's not like a, a riff fest. And I think that's sick because I don't know, dude, there so much of hardcore right now, especially in the Moshi lane is like, you know, riff after riff, after riff, after riff. And there's not a whole lot of emphasis put on songwriting and really like, you know, to be someone that stacks riffs, like you got to bring it like that band sector from Chicago, their LP from, I think two years ago, like that had a million great riffs on it. And, you know, of course like the heavy hitters, like, will from any G or Mike dirt or Mike Shaw. Like these guys can like lay riffs on riffs, but like everyone else, you know, you might want to think twice and like, just write a fucking song. And that's what's ill about this, right? Like this intro, it's a lot of done. And then like, it'll go into like those super riffy bounce parts. Right. And also same thing when it kicks into anguish, that first song, right? Like, it's like, it's a sick ass 90 second hard style song. It's like, uh, Fast part, then a fucking mosh, then a tom part with a repeated vocal part, two-step part, out. It's sick, dude. It's what I want in hardcore. A sick-ass 90-second song that brings the heat. I love that they do the open chords on the verses a lot. It's just not like a palm muted or a speed picked or just like a riffy wank fest. It's sick, dude. I don't know. Did that kind of explain what you're going for?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, yeah. I was just talking about the sustain. So on the ring out parts that you're talking about or that we're talking about, there's a hold on that. But the way the recording is, it carries really nicely. And it goes to what you're saying. It's just expert songwriting when you know you don't have to fill it. You're actually thinking about the song and not just thinking about what you can do on the song. Do you know what I mean? Like you're really thinking of the flow.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And it's like, it's not everyone trying to, it's not the guitarist trying to show off all the time, which is sick or like, and it shows like a level of confidence, I think. Right. It's like, Oh, I don't have to like stick something in every part of the song. I can just let some parts breathe. And the other thing I want to say about this is like, this singer just has a fucking savage voice, like a naturally savage ass voice. So like, it's like this might lean just as much into ripping corpse as it does floor punch, you know, if we're talking Jersey, like his voice is just something else. And I love it. And it's like, sometimes you get these dudes that have naturally sick voices, like, you know, this. And of course, like fucking the dude from major pain, like these guys just have like perfect fucking voices, you know, like that they just do effortlessly. And like, I think you got to call that out. I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, his voice is awesome. The intro is like a slowed out, swagged out version of the first song, Anguish. There's such a great progression when it launches from intro into Anguish. It's the highlight of the entire EP, I feel. The one-two punch of the intro into Anguish is fantastic. that really had me. Um, the other songs, it's not like a considerable drop off or anything like that because, you know, this is a great band doing great songs, but I, I, I definitely went back to the one, two punch
SPEAKER_07:a lot. Yes. I think that that's the best for sure. But like, it's no slouch, the other stuff, you know, cause even like, it's pretty sick on the lost in time song. First of all, shout out fucking in cold blood. But, uh, Like they're doing like that whole two step verse section and they're not riffing on that. It's just like, I don't know. It's a little different. It's sick. I think this like slides right in. If you love Scarab, you're going to love this.
SPEAKER_06:Just for that lost in time song too. Like it comes out with just the sickest drum beat and the way the singer comes and he goes, like, it's like a, yeah, but it's like really fucking hard. It's just great. Yeah. I really enjoy it. I enjoy, um, All four songs.
SPEAKER_07:Okay. Disguise, self-titled. It's a DGEP. Handle business. It's on the playlist. 185milesouth.com. There's a playlist link at the top of the page. And check out the music we're talking about. Also, you can just find us on Spotify. Handle business that way. Okay. Let's get on to some stuff that's more difficult to pronounce. The band is called Anemic Interior. The record is called Three. It's a self-released 7-inch, I believe. I couldn't find the info of any record label. They're out of Barcelona, Spain. This is the third thing they've put out, hence the title three. Big-time thinkers, just like Retaliate, right, Dan? But this thing, it's sick, dude. It falls right in line with a lot of the stuff we talk on here. It reminded me of that Coop Gorge band that we talked a lot last year in the way that it has fast parts. It sounds very punk, but it's also... super super melodic in like the guitar but not in the vocals i don't know what do you think about this one dan
SPEAKER_06:i think the vocals have really good strength but they are melodious as well but they've got like a a real strong attitude forward delivery i feel and the singer's got pipes he can hold notes or even quaver on the notes really well. Like on the chorus, he'd be like, Oh, you know, like stuff like that. Um, I loved this shout out Catalonia, shout out Pep Guardiola, shout out, you know, many, uh, many, uh, a wonderful footballer coming out of there, but especially Pep, the mind, the absolute mind. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I think that what I'm saying, like the vocals aren't overly melodic is because like the dude knows when to hang back. So again, it's like on the verses, he can hang back and shout, but you're right. There are some things like, okay, like the end of that last song, the fifth song, the, I'm going to pronounce this terribly, but Una Lanka and L move pit, like that sing along on the end is like a huge sing along. Right. So there is like melodic vocals here. It's just that like, if the dude was going over the top singing the whole time, it would drive me crazy. Um, I was just want to mention like that second song, the all's angels song. It's like a perfect fucking hardcore song, like straight up. It just starts like so fast and raging and like that crazy vocal pattern on the top of it. And then it breaks into that like really like soulful guitar hook. And then into like a very up, like an uptempo breakdown and then goes back fast and then it's out. Right. Like it's a, I don't know, definitely a sub two minute song. It might be like a 90 second song. And it's like, God damn, they just tuck so much into that. The last three songs are all mid tempo, super tuneful. I love it. I would. Yeah. I would just like the first two songs have fast parts. I just want a little more fast, right? The last three songs, they, they kind of, they blend together a little bit for me. where the first two songs are so dynamic with tucking in the fast. I don't know. What do you think,
SPEAKER_06:Dan? You know, my taste level will lean towards the last three songs, maybe a little bit more, just because they are so dipping their toes in the oi water. Sure. At the same time, they are... They're so... They're channeling more than just that, though. Like, you know, they can't help... Reggie, shush. They can't help but, you know, bring that little bit of hardcore with it, and they can't help but bring almost like a West Coast punk sensibility to it a little bit as well. But it's channeling, even though, you know, it's in Catalonia, so it's not, you know... there's a nod towards France. It is channeling a little bit of that darker, just sentiment, you know, like, like we, some of those bands like, you know, call themselves cold or, or, or things like that. There is like a, a somber nurse or a little bit of a, I don't know, just like a slightly sad strain, even though a lot of the riffs and a lot of the vocals sound very triumphant. There's still a bit of melancholy to it. And I don't know, I'm really here for it. I really love all five songs here. And I do like that you do get, you know... them showing off the hardcore chops as well as showing off their sing along or chops. And then they'd sing along punk chops on the, on the last song, you know, really great.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's like a, it's a pretty big journey in a short amount of time. And yeah, this is killer. The band is anemic interior. The record is called three. And yeah, it's on Spotify and all those, or in the playlist. I
SPEAKER_06:think it might be called trace.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, there you go. It could be. Okay, so the last thing that I want to talk that's new is the band Bullshit Detector. They put out a 7-inch called Violet Crown. Came out on Findaway Records. John, friend of the pod, put out Out of Trust and Burning Dog last year. This band is out of Texas. And yeah, dude, with Anemic Interior and this, they both are... That Froy sound or the dark oi sound is in the air. Because... Yeah, these first two tracks remind me a lot of that stuff, right? Like, you know, it could be very influenced by Reeks or like that Grisale band that we talked about, Syndrome 81, The Rancor, or even like that Aussie band, Brute.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:It's, you know, like this first song, right? The Rat King is Dead starts out like very jangly, you know, like with like that fade in, but then like it kicks in and on that mid tempo, like it's very like, dark melodic, but like the dude just has like this fucking burly ass gutter voice, which is like such a nice juxtaposition. And it really reminds me of like the more melodic criminal damage songs. You know how like that band, like every record they'd have like kind of one big, like more melodic song on it.
SPEAKER_09:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:This kind of reminds me of that. I don't know. Do you think that's a fair, fair comparison?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, definitely. I, Where I think some of the atmospheric parts that before the songs kick in, especially on The Rat King Is Dead, it's giving a bit of the same kind of atmospheric sound that Chameleons or some of those post-punk bands would do. And then it launches into, like you say, a very melodic punk, but with... The vocals sound like it could be a cross between Paul Bearer and Lemmy, but delivering over more melodic punk. And maybe even there's a little bit of Dillinger 4 influence here a little bit as well, perhaps. You would know that better than me. But... what i what i find is like the way you know it's interesting that you pointed out like similar to the cold boy like freud like type stuff because there's a there's a weird almost like i i don't know how to describe it i'm like i want to describe it as like medieval but it's not like they're not like playing loots and shit like
SPEAKER_07:that no no but you're right like it does it does kind of have that vibe, like, you know, but I mean, maybe like those dark vibes just make us feel like it's the fucking, you know, like middle
SPEAKER_06:ages
SPEAKER_07:hiding off the plague and we're like getting fucking lanced, you know?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:I don't know. I don't know.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. It almost has like a, almost like a, a drone, but like a up, up beat drone, like underneath it somehow. I'm just getting that. I don't know how, but, I feel like this is really good, but I think... I don't know. I don't want to be critical. I mean, I do want to critique it, but I don't want this to come off as being rude or anything. But there's an element of a vocal that is echoing the main vocal. And I think... either a, it doesn't need to be there, even though, you know, the person's voice is good or they would sing different words. I just think it's like, like a tiny little bit lazy, just repeating the, like the person and the main vocalist ends the line. And then it's like the last three songs of the line are echoed by a vocal. And it's like,
SPEAKER_07:you're talking about the call and answer part on the first song.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I agree with you. I would hack that part completely. I think that it's one of two things. It looks like they have some guest vocals on here, so it's like they're bringing someone in to sing something to get them on the record, which is cool. It's fun to have a group thing going. Or it's like another band member that they want to be involved. I don't know. I mean, it doesn't work. It's a pretty small part of the song, so whatever. But the person's voice is good. The person's voice is fine. It's not as good as the main dude's voice. I don't know. I always think about that Candiria song where the shutdown dude comes in and does a guest spot and it's like the worst guest spot ever. And it has nothing to do with that dude because I think he has a pretty decent voice and he's good on all his own records. But you can't come in after the Candiria guy sounding like the shutdown guy. You know what I mean? It just doesn't work. You don't want to get bodied on your guest spot. You know what I mean? This guy has such a gnarly, brutal voice. like to be just kind of like a normal voice filling in. I don't know. It would have been just, I would have rather just had it breathe.
SPEAKER_06:Yeah. I hear you. I, I feel like, I think it could, my, my critique is like, yeah, hacking it is one way, but if in the flow of the song and the lyrics, like it, it gave something like if the lyrics were like, don't know maybe asking questions and it was shouting out answers or something it could have really been you know an asset to the song but just echoing the vocal i just feel like it's like well it's like you said maybe they just wanted to get a homie on or whatever to like sing a part and they're like oh we like your voice so yeah well just echo these vocals it's a little bit um, perhaps lazy on that. But other than that, like everything's great. And, and the plimsolls cover, you know, everyone who's ever listened to 91 X on a Sunday morning, like for resurrection Sunday or any, had any of the great, um, new wave comps will know the, uh, the plimsolls million miles away cover.
SPEAKER_07:Well, I didn't know it, Dan. And I'm so glad this is a cover song. Cause this is one of the worst songs I've ever heard in my life. Um, I was, I was like really, I was figuring out how we were going to talk about this because it's like, okay, I really liked these first two songs. I think it's pretty sick and slides right in with all the Freud that we love. Like this fucking third song is trash. And like, I mean, I don't really love the style of music that they're covering here, but also like just their rendition of it was like, when I thought it was our original, I was like, God damn, this is like straight up one of the worst songs I've ever heard. Like the lyrics are, terrible you know i mean like i don't know it's just it's really bad and now it's like instead of being one of the worst songs ever by bullshit detector it's just one of the worst covers there are so
SPEAKER_06:i like the original of this
SPEAKER_07:well that's cool but
SPEAKER_06:you know anyway yeah
SPEAKER_07:yeah yeah the last request dude there's a band called bulls shit shout out rebirth records now there's bullshit detector i think the two gotta do a split seven inch that would be so sick
SPEAKER_06:yeah Or maybe if there's a band out there called Detector, we can get a three-way split.
SPEAKER_07:Dude, now we're talking. That's what's up. All right, Dan, let's move on from the new shit and get into some old shit. 1984, Poison Idea, record collectors are pretentious assholes, came out on fatal erection records. We are continuing Dan's Poison Idea journey, and we are going to talk the original version of this, So we're not including the bonus tracks that got added, uh, in the 1989 blitz core or the 1991 Tang versions. So, uh, those versions, they added typical right and die on your knees from cleanse of bacteria. And also that song laughing boy from drinking is great. Uh, that compilation, uh, Which is funny because that Laughing Boy song was like my favorite song off this record. So like, fuck, it's gone. But I think we'll do an episode at some point and we'll talk all the comp tracks. I had the Blitzcore version for a long time. At some point I sold it, I think because I was broke or I was moving. And because I was looking and I do remember selling it. And now I have, I think it's the early 2000s Tang version. So yeah, it's sick. I love this record. And Dan, what's your thought coming off the first 7-inch and going into this, their first 12-inch EP?
SPEAKER_06:Yeah, so there are songs on here that I liked so much. And then there are a couple filler tracks, believe it or not, for me. Now, it starts with AA, and... I absolutely hate that drinking sound and the gulping. It's just gross to me. But the song fucking rips, and the lyrics are really actually awesome, especially the God gave us this liver, didn't know he was an Indian giver, like talking about alcoholism. Yeah. I thought it was really, it's a great song. I feel like their sound on this record is, especially on this song in particular, or maybe on a couple of them, really channeling UK82, but his vocals, vocal delivery is really channeling Japanese hardcore to an extent. Tell me, tell me if you think I'm way off with the, this analysis, but the way that he, he draws out individual words into long, like lines almost like, you know, for, for example on, you know I don't know, like thorn in my side or something like the, the way that he just, can like go if you like listening along with lyrics you're like whoa he just did that whole line as like one like yeah well
SPEAKER_07:he's doing that on pick your king too that's why i said that you got to listen to stuff when you're reading like the lyric sheet because you really gain an appreciation not only for like his lyrics but like his delivery right like he's making conscious efforts on all this stuff yeah and you're right like the end of like cold comfort like his voice gets like so manic you know i mean yeah Um, and, and yeah, I think that he's like, they could be getting influenced by some of that, like really early Japanese stuff, but in turn, they're also like a blueprint band. That's like influencing that Japanese stuff that you you're talking about probably.
SPEAKER_06:A hundred percent. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Is that Jerry a slugging on the beginning of AA or is that pig champion at the trough?
SPEAKER_06:Oh, definitely the latter. That's so gulpage.
SPEAKER_09:That's
SPEAKER_06:right. I would say rubber husband is a really unique and cool song too. I really like, like the lyrical idea of like talking about, kinks and and um you know being a sub and stuff like that that's kind of like dropped out of like original uk punk would talk about it because like lots of the the adjacent people would work in like dungeons and whatnot so that you know submission sex pistols etc but it's kind of cool like that it gets like reported here but it's in such a dirty sleazy way and it's just you know kind of gross i don't know i really enjoyed this so let's keep on with this mission
SPEAKER_07:yeah i mean it's a nice follow-up right i mean that's what i would say it's interesting because like with poison idea i think that they have like the best run of punk like the most consistent run in the history of hardcore punk um but i do think that like every other record are like the best ones, right? So like you have pick your King. And then I think this one is like not quite as good as that, although still really good. And you have Kings of punk, which is like fucking fabulous. You know, then you have like the all war all the time, which is like still pretty good. You know what I mean? And then you come back with feel the darkness and it's like, God damn son. Now we're back. You know what I mean? Like it's like their, their valleys are not very deep, but like, yeah, this is, this is the one in between, uh, two classics in my opinion. And, and I think that one of the things that makes this not as spectacular as pick your King to me is like the recording. Um, the recording is a little bit muddier. The guitars are a little muddier, uh, in not the best way. And like the drums are not as bright and like the drumming on these records is fucking fabulous. Like this is a plus hardcore punk drumming. It's gotta be up front, you know, and I'll pick your King. It's so upfront. Um, Let me just run a couple of these songs real quick because this is so fun to talk about. I just want to say on AA, both those fast riffs are so perfect. And then I love that going from that into Legalized Freedom, Legalized Freedom is just a tick faster. And then they're really starting to bring in this sleaze. So that Legalized Freedom song has a total sleazer breakdown on the back end. And then it goes into that Cold Comfort song, which is like an up-tempo, mid-tempo, full-on sleazer. Right. Both those riffs are so fucking good. You know what I mean? Like if I could play guitar better, I'd be jamming those two riffs all day long. And then one of the things I love about this record is I think it's, well, I think that those like first, I guess it's funny that you call it a rubber husband. Cause I kind of think this is like weighted front heavy and back heavy. Cause like those last three songs are so good. Right. Like the rich get richer, just a fucking rager. Then the don't like it here, even more of a rager. Yeah. But it has those fear breaks in it, like very disconnected, like that shit. And then ending on Time to Go, just a fucking mid-tempo banger that has that wild Snake Charmer guitar lead in the middle. And then those fast flourishes at the end when they just tease the fast parts. Goddamn, dude. It's like they can't miss anything. This is
SPEAKER_06:so good. And the drumming on that one, like giving you that like really cool, like almost like a throwback to 77, like top of head and like kind of drumming at the beginning. And then it just, boom, then goes into like a really good lights. I won't say a stomp, like a total, like, I don't know, like, like you say, mid tempo banger, like a circle pit, like, like skank beat, you know?
SPEAKER_07:So good. Oh, yeah. Dan, well, it's been fun talking this with you. Thanks so much for your help. Let the people know where they can find you.
SPEAKER_06:You can find me on Instagram at Southport Instagrammer.
SPEAKER_07:All right, we got Todd Jones to talk cover songs. What's up, Todd? Hey, hey, hey. Thanks for having me. Hell yeah. Dude, I wanted to talk to you about this because we both got into hardcore around the same time. Cover songs used to be so crucial back then, I think for several reasons. One of the main ones being that so much music was out of print and not easy to get. A lot of times, you heard about old school songs through bands covering them. That's something that I think has been lost a little bit in modern hardcore like there's been not so much looking back not so much about caring about like the history of the thing and so it's kind of something i wanted to put out in the zeitgeist that covers are fucking sick dude and i know that uh nails has done a bunch and like your your cover palette here is like pretty varied so i thought we'd get into it a little bit uh what's your overall thought on like cover songs
SPEAKER_03:um these days it's a little different um being given that nails has gone from a band that had you know um you know when we first played shows we didn't have a release we didn't put anything on band camp we didn't have a record out we just i i really wanted the band to just play some shows before we released anything just to you know get that under our belt but um Given that Nails is now a band with three plus albums of material out, I think a little bit differently about cover songs. For instance, if Nails goes out and plays a show, the most amount of songs we're going to play at a show is probably 18 to 20. And at that point, I think we would just fill up our set with all our old songs. And if there was a song that I wanted to cover really, really, really fucking bad enough, I would probably just... think about the things or the qualities of that song that I like and try to write my own song with those qualities. But, um, but yeah, I mean, going back to what you're, I'm sorry to go back and forth, but like, for instance, the first time I heard brotherhood, the band brotherhood from Seattle was, was because of 10 yard fight because they record that on there. They had that on their, um, hardcore pride CD. And I'm, I'm guessing that's might be the first time you heard it too, but yeah, so that was super important. Um, but, uh, yeah, I love cover songs.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and it kind of used to be a thing where like at a show you were put on the spot, right? Like a band would do a cover song and it's like if you didn't know it, you felt like a foo.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, because it's like everybody's having fun and going off and I'm kind of standing there being like, what the hell is this? But also it's like that thing where it's like, hey guys, what song was that? Like, I like that song. And it's like, oh, it's a obscure song that you can't find anymore. I'll give you the tape so you could listen to it. It was like a way for you to learn about more music and communicate more with your friends.
SPEAKER_07:Right, and we did that in our young bands, too. I remember having conversations like, we've got to cover this and this show, and then this and this show. It's to put on for those bands. It's almost like you're giving respect from that band to the younger kids that might not know.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I would say that, too. I remember those times, and I remember the inspiration to cover a song was, number one, at least one person in the band was like, Hey guys, like we really need to cover the song. It totally fits in with our vibe or, you know, for whatever reason, somebody would be like gung ho, like, Hey, we're going to cover the song. And, you know, you would cover it. And one of the things that would do is if you were, for instance, if, if you were playing a support show or, you know, you weren't headlining or whatever, or maybe you were headlining, but if the audience at large, wasn't necessarily familiar with your material, they would be familiar with the, that cover song you were doing. So they could, you know, participate in, in your set if they wanted to, or, you know, you could just give them another reason to want to check out your band.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. It builds a little camaraderie between the band and the crowd, right? It's like, okay, you don't know our shit, but at least we agree on this one thing, you know, black flag is sick. Absolutely. Yes. All right. Let's dig into your list here. You got five songs that nails is covered. I didn't write them down in order, but let's go with GBH sick boy. I just really
SPEAKER_03:wanted to play. I think Nails started playing that song after we released our last record, You Will Never Be One of Us, and I wanted just a hard-ass fucking punk song to play in our set. I think that's really what it came down to. And that song fits that description. It's super catchy. And also, another thing is I thought it fit well into our set. It's kind of like a mid-tempo jam. There's no mosh part in it. it's a little bit different, right? So it kind of gives the set some peaks and some valleys. So, um, after you play like three grind core songs, you can play sick boy. And it was like a, a welcomed, um, change, you know, for your ears and just for the crowd participation. Um,
SPEAKER_07:yeah. Yeah. As long as rips, you know, classic UK 82, like a tick, a tick faster than mid tempo. I'd say it's like, it just is a 82 B, right? I mean, like, you can't downstream the whole thing. Maybe you can, cause you're a freak. Right. But like average guitarist can't like downstream that song.
SPEAKER_03:It's hard. It's, it's definitely hard. You gotta, you gotta attend the school, the school of James Hetfield for that one.
SPEAKER_07:That's right. That's right. Um, okay. Straight ahead. Breakaway came out on the breakaway 12 inch 1987. Yeah,
SPEAKER_03:dude. So this is, um, you and I were together when we first heard straight ahead for the first time. And it was because, um, you know, uh, it was after the Oxnard floor punch show and, and, uh, uh, floor punch state at Chris Grande and Noah is our department. And, um, Eris lived there as well. And, um, you remember Mark Porter playing this for us?
SPEAKER_07:Yes.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so that was a big moment. And throughout the years, that record, the straight-ahead spirit, I don't know if it's called Breakaway, but that 12-inch has become pretty much my favorite New York hardcore record of all time. I like it more than I like Age of Choral or any of those classics. That song is just fucking undeniable. And I think... I don't know if this is true, but I think that song's mosh part, it might be the first of its kind where it's like a descending chromatic pattern. I feel like that mosh part inspired Striking Distance, that tune Fail Me, the second song off their album, which is a great mosh part. I think it inspired that Siv song Do Something. And it sounds like it was inspired by that Bad Brains tune um how low can a punk get like and it's um it just has that vibe to it and it's just i i think i just love the song that's that's all there was to it you know it's i thought i thought that we would play it well i thought we would do it justice and um i love i love i've always loved ever since i got into it was like you know the late 80s new york hardcore revelation back catalog, but you know, revelation one through 20 youth of the day, bold, all that shit. And I feel like straight ahead breakaway was like, um, it was like, it was probably very influential to those bands is how I feel. And I just, I just love that shit.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. The in mosh sequence is like so good. And it's like, how can this get better? And then they lay down like one of the better, like eighties, hardcore solos on the top of it. So good.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, so tasty. Yeah, Rob Echevarria really fucking killed on that solo. It's hummable. It's memorable. You know, you could kind of sing it. And yeah, I agree. That's so fucking, it's relevant, right? I mean, it's hard to do a solo in a hardcore song and have it be like, you know, as important as a chorus or any other aspect of a song that's good and still be cool.
SPEAKER_07:A hundred percent. Okay. Let's go on to discharge. Ain't no feeble bastard came out on the Y 12 inch 1981. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So this is kind of like the GBH thing where, um, we now started covering the song like very, very, very early, like probably show five to 10. We played this, we played the song and it was just another thing where it's like, Hey, you know, I, I don't expect, you know, I don't expect folks to know who the band is yet. You know, bands very young, a lot of folks don't know who it is. So I want to play a song that's catchy. You could sing along to it. And it also has like a, a mid pace flavor to it. You know, a lot of, most of the songs that we were playing were primarily fast. So this is like, another one of those things that could kind of break up our set list and you know Discharge is and was a very big influence to Nails so it just it just made sense
SPEAKER_07:yeah I always like lean towards their mid-tempo songs too it's wild because you know they're known for like the d-beat basically just creating a full sub-genre and hardcore you know but it's like Yeah, I always lean like Ain't No Fuel Bastard, Protest and Survive, State Violence, State Control, Religion and Seagates. Those are the fucking tentpole songs.
SPEAKER_03:Dude, how catchy are those songs? Those folks must have really known. I don't know. It's just so hooky. You said it yourself, Protest and Survive. That's so fucking catchy, and it's so aggressive and so hard.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I mean, there's something to be said to... like being the first ones to it. Right. So you could use these things that would kind of be cliche, but you're the first. So they're not cliche, you know? And also like discharge and like the, the UK 82 stuff, it's all about like just finding like a pretty simple, but sick riff and just milking it for the song, you know?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. It's very bulk vocally like
SPEAKER_07:driven. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. And just that, and one riff, like being in the pocket or two riffs, you know, verse riff, chorus riff, you know? Hell yeah. Okay. Let's go on to sheer terror. Cup of Joe came out on just can't hate enough. 1989. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So, um, that was the first cover song we ever did. And, um, when nail started, I really wanted the band to, um, sounds like kind of unwelcoming. And, um, think this song is very unwelcoming i think it's very nihilistic it's strange it sounds strange the the music sounds strange and the vocals the lyrics especially i think are strange it's like um i feel like it's like when you're in elementary school and it's a rainy day and you go outside and play with your friends and for the rest of the day up until you get home you have to deal with like wearing a wet sock until you can change it and i feel like That's the vibe of this song. It's just fucking dreary and depressing, and I think that's really why I wanted to cover it. I think we only played it once or twice, our first round of shows, and I love that song. I first heard it on the comp, the Blackout Records comp. Not the way it is, but the other New York Hardcore comp.
SPEAKER_07:Where the wild things are.
SPEAKER_03:There you go. I don't know why that evaded my memory so much, but I think I first heard it on that. That song's on that, right? Yeah, yeah. Okay, so that's where I first heard it. Yeah, I don't know. I just think it's a fucking ugly-ass song.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, you got to be a band like Nails to pull this song off, right? Because Sheer Terror has a lot of classic songs on that record, but I think that this is one of the songs where they needed that recording to match. You know that wild-ass guitar tone? that's on that record. Yes. You know, cause like there's that long kind of slow gallopy part on the beginning. And it's like, if they were just an E standard without much distortion, like this song would be sorry, you know what it's like, you know, just milking like that, that tone they have. It's like, it makes it fucking like, I don't know, like stoner metal almost on the beginning, you know, and then circling back to do like kind of a, a more up tumble gallop on the end. Like, yeah, this song is just a fucking vibe.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, absolutely. That guitar player definitely used the same or tried to chase the same tone as Celtic Frost, turning the tone knob on your guitar all the way down so it sounds super bassier and just sludgier. Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_07:Hell yeah. Let's go on to Final Conflict. One answer came out on Ashes to Ashes 1987.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, very good. So this is the last song that Nails has covered. We never played it live, but we did record it. We did a recording session where we recorded the GBH tune, Sick Boy, and then we recorded this song. And Big Frank Harrison, who played in Cary Nation, was a promoter in Southern California and is now a tattoo artist, I believe, up in the Sacramento area. There was a compilation, 12-inch, that was released for him. We just recorded these two songs. And basically, dude, I love fucking Final Conflict. I love all their material. It's all fucking good. But this is off their first album. It's the second song off their first album. And I think a couple of thoughts here. Number one, bands like Framptid and bands that have that sound, I feel like Final Conflict It was a huge influence to those bands, just as much as Discharge was. I feel like Final Conflict is almost like the Southern California version of Crucifix in a way. It's like they have that same kind of style of hardcore. And I love all kinds of different styles of hardcore, but to me, Battalion of Saints, Final Conflict, Crucifix, those sounds are kind of like the epitome of what hardcore is in my mind. Like super, super fucking fast, not overly moshy, you know, punk influenced mosh parts. Like that's it. That's fucking hardcore to me. And, um, I just, there's just another thing. Like what I was saying earlier, like, you know, cover songs usually start with one person in the band saying, Hey guys, we really got to cover this song. Cause I want to. And, uh, that, that's, that's, that's the, that's the reason why we cover that song. I just think it's a fucking raging ass fucking song. And I'll have to dig through the files. Maybe we can put this out someday.
SPEAKER_07:Dude, that's so sick that you called out crucifix. Cause I actually, I just have this record and dehumanization on like a, a playlist when I go ride my bike and put it on shuffle. And like, they're pretty interchangeable, you know, like if it wasn't the two voices being kind of distinctly different, like, cause the crucifix dude sounds a lot like Roger, you know? And, and Ron on this has like a, a pretty, uh, sick, like 80s. I don't know how to, I wouldn't say snotty, but it's like kind of a sick, typical punk voice, you know?
SPEAKER_03:It's like
SPEAKER_07:a
SPEAKER_03:yell.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, it's so sick. I mean, that's kind of the biggest way to tell it apart. I guess the crucifix is a little fuzzier, but like, yeah, that's a great cop.
SPEAKER_03:That's so interesting to me. That really validates what I was saying then. If you would put those two things together and kind of jam them at the same time, it's like, you know, it is. It's like, that's fucking... Those bands totally define that style and that sound of that era, I think.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, but they're kind of far apart. They're years apart. And in hardcore, especially in the 80s, that's like a lifetime. Final Conflict is kind of on an island by themselves. In 87, there's not that much. Did
SPEAKER_03:Apocalypse Now come out in 87? Yeah, Ash's Ash has come out in 87, dude. Oh, my bad. Apocalypse Now is the first song on that record. The record's called Ashes to Ashes. Yeah, so I did not know that came out in 1987. If I had to guess, I would have guessed it came out in 85. 100%. That's what's wild.
SPEAKER_07:Wow. Yeah, it's like on an island by itself. In California in 87, there's not that much hot shit, right? You have the second Blast record, you have that second RKL LP, and then this. It's like, damn, it's kind of like a wasteland.
SPEAKER_03:Have you had an opportunity to interview or at least speak to Ron about the climate of California from his perspective during that time?
SPEAKER_07:Dude, thanks for serving that up because hopefully on this episode it's going to happen.
SPEAKER_03:Love it. That's great. I can't wait to listen to that.
SPEAKER_07:Hell yeah. Okay, let's go into the final one, Breakdown Sick People. It came out on the 87 demo. It's also on the Way It Is comp, 87 and 88 respectively. What's
SPEAKER_03:up,
SPEAKER_07:dude?
SPEAKER_03:Dude, it's fucking sick people. Like, what more can be said? But, you know, it nails at that time. I think we covered that song after Unsilent Death came out, but before Abandon All Life came out. So that was the era when we were playing it. We played it live. We played it at some fests. We played it at some shows. We didn't play it a whole lot, but it's just, you know, here's another reason, dude. Here's another reason why one of the things why I choose to play cover songs is sort of to, like, stoke out my friends. Yeah. I have friends my age who are coming to Nails shows. I don't want to downplay myself, but they might not necessarily be Nails fans. They're just there because they're supporting me. Maybe they just want to be at the show. I've made a lot of friends with people who like Breakdown. It was one of those things. It's like, let's just fucking play Sick People. It's the heaviest song from that era. The song means a lot to me. I don't know if you remember this, but you know, I think I was like 14 and you, you had a sessions catalog and it had a, it had one page with an ad from a distribution and you showed it to me and I, I, we did like a group order. I think you ordered a couple of things and I ordered a couple of things. And, and one of the things I ordered was the way it is compilation on cassette. And, um, you know, breakdown is the last song on side a of that cassette. And, um, At the time, I was more stoked on bands like Bold and Warzone. They were kind of faster. I didn't really understand the New York hardcore stuff that was more sludgier, chuggier maybe. I don't know how to classify sick people, but it wasn't fast like Bold and Warzone was. But it's something I obviously fucking grew to love. It's the ultimate fucking turn-up song. It's just about fucking smashing people. So yeah, I don't know. It's just a fucking fantastic song. And it's just a raging song. Do something. Commit some bad behavior when that song plays.
SPEAKER_07:Yes. Two things on that. One thing that's interesting is you saying it's a song you got into later on the way it is. Because totally, dude. It's like the ultimate... revelation stamp album you know it's like it's got a little bit of everything but then there are some ugly pieces right there's like breakdown and that nausea song and they're kind of like ones you get into a little later you know once you've like been playing as one a million times you know you've been playing fucking uh the bold song a million times right and it's like okay let's get into this other shit and it's like oh that nausea song is nice you know
SPEAKER_03:I love that. Yeah, I love nausea. Like, I, yeah, that was like a weird outlier. It was like, this is a little crusty. And I'm looking for something that's more like youth of today. And then you realize lately, years later, like, this is the shit. nausea is great.
SPEAKER_07:And it's in the two slot to like, they're not burying it. It's like right there.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, they really championed them on the track listing and put them right up front. I think that's cool. I wonder why that decision was made. I'm sure part of that decision was made because of the fact that it was a fast song, but also because they probably did want to show diversity on that comp right away. At least, I think. Who knows why they made the decision they made.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, who knows? The other thing is just, you know, Terror, first show, you do two breakdown songs, right? You do Kick Back and you do, what do you do, Life of Bullshit?
SPEAKER_03:No, we did Kick Back into, no, we did All I Ask into Kick Back.
SPEAKER_07:All I Ask into Kick Back, dude. There you go. Yeah. So yeah, it's a nice little circle back.
SPEAKER_03:It is, it is.
SPEAKER_07:Well, hell yeah, dude. I appreciate you talking covers with us and I hope we put it out there that covers are sick and more bands should play old school songs, you know, like, show some love you know put some kids on to like some old old school shit because like it's kind of what makes hardcore special right is like the building blocks there is a history here like of course the music's sick and it's cool to just like the music there's nothing wrong with that but like when you decide that like this is a thing for you you're gonna stick around for a minute like it is sick to peel back the layers and be like oh this is where it started and this built on this and this built on this and it got us to where it is today you know so and and bands doing covers and looking back is like a big building block of that stuff i think
SPEAKER_03:yeah absolutely i had a curiosity like what uh have you seen any bands cover cover songs lately do they not do that
SPEAKER_07:no i haven't seen it too much lately dude and that's kind of why like i'm bringing this up yeah we need to start needling tsunami like just to play young till i die and see what happens oh my god you know like no seriously like i'm so curious so it Tsunami playing in an 800 cap room, they cover seven seconds. Like what happens? Cause like that used to be, that's kind of a song where even if you don't have the record, you know, the song, you know? Right.
SPEAKER_03:Well, yeah, I don't, I don't know the folks in Tsunami, but I've seen Tsunami. I think they're fucking awesome live. I think their music's good. I really like the singer's voice. Um, with, with that being said, like, like it, I don't know those dudes and I don't know their culture, but based off their music, if I had to guess what kind of song they would cover, if they were like, okay, I'm going to take it back to when I was 13 years old and I'm going to play a song of shit I was listening to then, would it be like seven seconds or would it be like 25 to life or would it be like, I don't know, throw down? I wonder if Tsunami... you know, did choose like a cover song. I wonder what they would choose.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, dude, we're gonna have to find out Joseph friend of the pod. So, uh, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna need a little bit and we'll see what happens.
SPEAKER_03:Awesome. I want to, I want to, I want to know. I want to know.
SPEAKER_07:That's right. We got to know, bro. Tossing it back.
SPEAKER_03:Hey
SPEAKER_07:Todd, thanks so much for your time.
SPEAKER_03:Thank
SPEAKER_02:you, Zach. What's
SPEAKER_07:up, everyone? I got Ron Martinez from Final Conflict. What's up, dude? How you doing, Zach? Thanks for asking me to do this. Hell yeah. Dude, I've always been fascinated with this period in Southern California, kind of like the 86 to 88. As someone that doesn't get into punk until the early 90s, I'm looking at a lot of this stuff on paper. You're looking at records that come out. You're looking at... flyers and so forth, and it just seems like at least the records, things start to get really lean post-1985. 1984 is pretty on fire. In 85, you still have the heavy fumes from that. In 86, it just seems like it dries up in SoCal. You have the Beowulf record, you have the Uniform Choice LP, but there's not a lot. And then in 87... You have your record, Final Conflict, Ashes to Ashes, the greatest SoCal record of the year. You have the RKL LP, which is great. Descendants do a record. And then you have other demos coming up, like the Infest demo, the Half Off demo, the Instead demo. And then you have all the Rev stuff popping on the East Coast, which is really going to carry the torch for that Roots hardcore sound. Yeah, that was like the second
SPEAKER_04:wave of hardcore was the Rev catalog. Like Rev starting and doing the Warzone EP and all that stuff was the beginning of the second wave.
SPEAKER_07:Right. So what's happening in California though? Like why is like 86 so barren for like records coming out? Like a lot of bands are going softer or going metal, right? Like you kind of go the seven seconds route of like going more U2 or you go like the Dr. No route of going heavy metal?
SPEAKER_04:Is that inaccurate? You've hit the nail on the head. And I'm so stoked to do this because this is like conversations that I have with friends, you know, like when we're nerding out and talking. But one of the things that never gets mentioned about, and it is, that was the period where like, I call it everyone's U2 period, but they wanted to be U2, you know? And it started with seven seconds because they were like, the flagship West Coast positive hardcore band, but they weren't the only one. And they weren't necessarily like, well, Seven Seconds is doing this. We're going to do it too. Because you had bands like Justice League that did the same thing. The only difference, here's the thing, is when Seven Seconds did the U2 thing, I didn't think it was very good. I didn't like it. I actually liked when Justice League kind of went more post-rock, emo, whatever you want to call it. I thought they were a better band. I'm friends with Mark, the bass player, and I told him that he thought I was fucking with him because he was like, oh, I know that we did that chorus. I go, no, the one with the record with the weed on the cover. I really liked that record. I thought you were a better group. You actually made it work. But one of the things I should say, You've got the hardcore, you know, certain bands like Final Conflict, Dr. No, and a lot of bands start kind of the crossover thing is happening. And yeah, there's a metal influence coming. And then you've got the hardcore bands that are doing the U2 post-rock and they're seeing what's going on with the Discord bands and whatnot. Rites of Spring and stuff in their development and their following in that direction. But what people don't also realize is a lot of these bands are growing older. A lot of these bands were putting out records and demos when they were still in high school. And then you got to think about, you go back and you go, wow, The stuff I liked to do when I was 16 and 19, between 16 and 19, are significantly different. And that's the thing. So it was really easy to kind of like when you were there and I saw the early Uniform Choice shows when they were just, they were a band that no one wanted to play after. Okay. Even when they weren't headlining yet, you were just like, you better hope your band goes on before that uniform choice band goes on. Cause we're just going to wear the crowd out. Yeah. You know? And they were just that early stuff, man. Like they were just mind-blowingly good. They were, and you just couldn't follow it. You know, they would take the stage or, you know, and it was like a can of whoop ass got opened up on the entire room. And, but, you know, but then they do staring at the sun, they grew their hair out and they started drinking and you're like, what the fuck? Even I, you know, I was, you know, the punk rock guy who liked to drink beer and like minor threat just as much. But I was even like, what the hell are they doing? I don't want to see Pat Dubar with flowing locks that he's like tossing back like Farrah Fawcett. I want to hear fucking straight and alert. I want to hear this. But the thing was, it's this kind of going, you know, you get older and you kind of like what you want to do or what appeals to you. You want to try other things. You don't want to just lock in. And that never gets taken in consideration that a lot of these bands, man, they started playing and they were recording these records. They were like 16 to like 19 years old. And then they hit 19 to 20, 22, 24. They just want to do something different. Not everybody stays on the Bridge Nine message board arguing for their entire life, you know? And that never gets taken in consideration like what happened. It was like people were starting to age out. People were discovering new things. They were discovering new bands and going, I'd like to try that, you know? I'd like to do that. And, you know, it... even then there wasn't a sellout got thrown out a lot, you know, and there was nothing to sell out to at that time, you know?
SPEAKER_07:Right. So that dials into like the sound a bit. And I think you calling out justice league is a good cop, right? Cause like they evolve a lot in like that 85 to 87 range. Um, but you know, not really commercially at all. There's nothing there, but I want to dial into like the shows. Like, so a lot of the bands are changing and there's not, a ton of like big tentpole records coming out. But like, I mean, you look at like fenders is going here. There's like hundreds of kids coming out to these bigger shows, right? The scene is still thriving or is it like dipping?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it was still thriving. Like, you know, and, and the shows were great. Cause you would see, you know, you could go to one show and it was instead final conflict, no for an answer and packed. And, and every kid was there to see every band. There was no, there was no segregation, you know, at all. And that lasted for a short time. But...
SPEAKER_07:When do you think that is?
SPEAKER_04:You know, and that's like, you know, you're talking about between 85 and 88, you know, where people are as excited to see They're just as excited to see Dr. No as they are as excited to see Blast. They're as excited to see Seven Seconds as they are to see The Addicts. You know, there was, it was just like, because it was still like, hey man, there's such a small number of us. We're better together than apart. We didn't, you didn't have the luxury that, you know. And this is coming from a guy who started looking like a weirdo in 81, where me and my friend Dave were the only guys in the punk rock in our high school. And we had to worry about the jocks beating us up, the stoners beating us up, everyone beating us up, the cheerleaders beating us up. But yeah, the early Fender shows were packed and wild and great. But again, then it was a combination of things was the gang thing started to enter. And that was the first kind of like bad step because there's fights and you can go on YouTube and see some sets. And those fights, they weren't one-on-one. They were like five-on-five, six-on-six fights. you know, big brawls that would go from one side that were kind of like a tornado almost through the room. And it became this expected thing. Like, Hey man, I went to fenders and I saw five bands and seven fights, you know, all for eight bucks, you know? Um, another thing that happened was the segregation. Um, and, um, Hardcore bands started to, there was bands like Youth of Today and stuff that really kind of led the charge of kind of this separation. Like, we're not punk, we're hardcore. And some of these bands, all they were were jocks with guitars. And there's nothing wrong. You could be into sports and like hardcore and punk or whatever. But the thing was, is you were supposed to abandon that mentality and they didn't. They brought their jock kind of preppy mentality along with them. And it kind of became this thing where it was like the townies versus the preps, you know? And so you had the hardcore kids in time and, segregating themselves we're not punks punks are a bunch of drunk losers and then the punks are like well fuck those guys and becoming in doing like being more obnoxious and fuck straight edge and fuck this where before it was hey you're in a straight edge cool I like minor threat too and that's cool that's good for you you don't want to do that but it became this whole thing ushered in by certain bands and you know, like this mentality. And when you're dealing with youth, they take things really personal and they take things... Everyone's always trying to be the most extreme, the most punk, the most straight edge, the most this. And that's kind of what happened where things kind of splintered off. But hardcore really did stay... It really did stay like a little more vibrant and alive because... punk got so infiltrated with this gang stuff that people stopped going to shows or were real selective about where's that show at? Oh, I'm not going if it's at Fender's. I'm not going there. I'll go and see a show here. I won't go see a show there. And the hardcore kids kind of created their own thing. They started figuring out their own places to do shows, but then again, again, it became segregated because all they wanted to do was put other straight edge, positive hardcore bands on their shows, you know? And that's kind of what brought it that, that lull within the scene. Um, it was, it was started with the violence though, the gang violence. And, um, You know, because I remember it never happened to me, but plenty of my friends, when they would be waiting outside in line for a show Defenders, like guys from the lads or guys from Suicidal would go down the line and just take their money and take their ticket. Like, and it almost became like some of my friends talk about it now and they kind of go, yeah, it was kind of like a baptism into punk and hardcore. Like if you could put up with that or if it happened to you and you still wanted to hang out and go to shows, that was like insane. you were worth it because you had been jacked outside of Fender's. What year do you think that got the worst? It got pretty bad. It started to get bad around, oh man, 88, 87. I remember going to a show at Fender's and it was Bad Religion, Gang Green. This is when Bad Religion was like, just about to put out suffer. They were back playing with the original line with bread on guitar and, and Jay on bass. And they were just crushing it. And, you know, gang green were really big at that time too. And there was seriously, maybe, maybe a hundred people there. Like it had just become a, like people just didn't want to go there. If, and I was minding my own business and a bunch of suicidal guys came up to me and then they were going to mug me and stab me. Luckily, another suicidal guy that I was really tight with, he said, hey, hey, hey, none of that. He's a cool dude. They were like, oh, okay. They left me alone, but he told me, don't come back here for a while. I mean for six months because they told me that they had seen a guy from some band and they were going to jack him up. I didn't know it was you. I was like, Yeah, cool. I didn't go to Fender's for almost a year after that. The robbery wasn't a personal one. They didn't go, I'm going to get that guy from Final Conflict. They were just like, hey, this guy is by himself. It's him by himself. One of my guys say he's in some band, so we're just going to rob him. They were going to steal my bullet belt. Right. That was what they were going to mug me
SPEAKER_07:about. For the people listening online, You're saying 100 people at Fender's. What was the cap at Fender's? Man,
SPEAKER_04:that place could get pretty packed. Based on my memory, that place could hold at least 600 to 800 people. It was a pretty good-sized room. I think legally, they probably could have put about 600 in there, but they would put about eight if they'd show up. I went to some shows that were just amazing. impact, like Bad Brains in the Attic's major accident tour, when Final Conflict got to play with Bad Brains on the Eye Gets to Eye tour. So many legendary shows that were great and good vibes. But that's also kind of when the gang thing started creeping in. And that was kind of like the stomping ground for it.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. I read this scene report. It's January of 89 in MRR, and they're talking about Ill Repute played LA. It's an Ivy show, and they get in a fight with a crowd, and that club gets shut down. The person doing the scene report is like, now there's nowhere in LA to play. I heard Fenders is doing shows again, but they're only going to do shows for the big bands, so there's nowhere for the smaller bands to play. Is that accurate? It's like 88 and then into 89. It's kind of a wasteland if you're not a big enough band to play Fenders?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, pretty much. And again, that's where the hardcore kids started to just like, they would use community centers at their church to do shows and say that, oh, we're going to do the youth ministry. Even at that time, my friend Mark McDaniel and I, he had gotten himself ordained as a minister kind of just as a joke. But we started a production company called Christ Craft Productions. And we would, we would fib to like rental halls in orange County and say, we were like a youth ministry group and that we were doing like a little gathering. And when we do shows with, you know, instead and infest, and we'd never be able to use that room again, you know, but that's how you did it. You just did it guerrilla style and you'd lie to get it. You know, you'd set up one show and you, we never had trouble. I think, I think at one show, I remember some kid that stage dive during infest, or maybe it was instead and just hit his head on the floor and got knocked out. And that was kind of scary for a minute, but he ended up being fine. But, um, but you never got a second. We, we knew like, this is going to be the only show we're going to be able to do here. Cause they're going to freak out once they see a bunch of punk rock or hardcore kids in here, you know? Sure. And that's how it was. You'd get it, you'd set up a show. And then if you get the, you know, you get a venue, you just hope like, well, hopefully if nobody fights or, or anything, we could do a second one, you know, and maybe you would, you would get a room last for two or three shows, but then they would, you know, either a fight would happen and they'd freak out or, oh, we're not selling enough alcohol, you know, like, because, you know, you're, there's not enough 21 up people coming. So, it became kind of patchy and that's kind of like, that's kind of how, like, again, like punk kind of like started evolving in like, in the direction of like what kind of became like grunge, you know? And, and, uh, because they started to play more bars because that's where they could play, you know? And, and, uh, uh, an all ages punk show became a rare thing unless a big band came out, like unless Agnostic Front came out, you know, or GBH came out or something. And that lasted for a few years like that, where you would just wait to go and see a big show. And meanwhile, like I was like, I got really, you know, I was so bummed out and disillusioned with like, what the punk scene had turned. Like I was bummed out that like punk and hardcore became two completely different things and segregated seeing my friends segregated, you know, like in, in fuck that band and fuck those guys and, and the violence. So I just mostly went to, I discovered speed and thrash metal. And I just started going to see shows with like Slayer and, and Exodus and stuff. Now, I was still like the punk rock guy at the show, but I was treated nicer and felt safer at those shows. I remember the first Slayer show I ever went. It was the first speed metal show I'd ever went to with Slayer, Possessed, and Dark Angel at this club in Buena Park called Radio City. And I was terrified because I was like, oh man, these thrashers are going to beat up on me because I'm a punk rocker, but I really like this Slayer band. I go to the venue and Corrosion of Conformity is in the parking lot selling shirts for$5 so they could get in the show. And I buy a couple shirts off of them. I pay to go in the show. And it's me. Me and the guys from Final Conflict are the only punk rockers. And we got our fucking hair spiked up and our leather jackets on. And everybody there was so cool to us. and going fuck yeah dude GBH and pointing at bands on our jackets go fuck yeah dude Battalion of Saints fucking rule and like I was like hey this reminds me of the first punk rock show I went to no one tried to beat me up everyone was cool and everybody was like hey we're all here because we like the same music killer you know and then the Eric thing started taking off too so you had a lot of bands like hardcore and punk bands getting into that and developing into that so As the genre expanded and people grew up, that caused that kind of shift. And meanwhile, you've got bands that are keeping hardcore alive. You've got the Chain of Strength. You've got Sick of It All. And I'm paying attention to that stuff. But a little resentful. A little resentful because I watched the scene that meant so much to me completely be destroyed. by violence and drugs and alcohol, mostly violence. And meanwhile, the hardcore scene is still doing okay. But I'm looked at as a quote unquote warlock, me and my friends, because we wear black clothes and hair. So when we do go to the hardcore shows, we're kind of being treated as outsiders and interlopers. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, which is wild when you put out one of the greatest hardcore records in 87, which is very similar to the roots of the thing, like a victim in pain or like a dehumanization. It's right in that lane.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, but I don't expect people to be cool to me because I did a cool record in the 80s. I mean, the other thing too was like, hey man, I'm one of the few people in this room that actually saw Minor Threat. play i'm i i fucking i'm working with and helping out your favorite bands i'm booking shows within fest i'm i'm the guy reason why you get to see them play in orange county i helped produce the first no for an answer record you know and and the funny thing that i i didn't even realize this till someone pointed it out to me we were the first band to go on the spot recording and we were the first punk slash hardcore band to go and spot. And we started that whole genre, like all the bands. I looked at the list on Discogs, how many bands went to spot. And like Frosty from Chain of Strength told me, he goes, we went there because you recorded there. We wanted to have that sound, you know? And it was like, we got all those records, all the fucking Infest records. And like, it's mind blowing that we were the band. Like they all went and said, and these are all hardcore bands that said, we want to go where Final Conflict went. Yeah,
SPEAKER_07:to rail them off for people, this is like no for an answer, no comment, free will, VD, half off, high racks, that stuff.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, they all wanted that get. It was a total fluke. We did not know what the fuck we were doing at the time, but I've always loved hardcore music. you know, like, and I was there to see some of those bands. It's funny that throughout the years, like I remember, I remember I was working at the shop and this, this hardcore guy, and this is kind of, this is like late, late nineties and he's wearing an outspoken shirt. And I, and we were talking and I go, and I, and I, and I knew outspoken was playing like in a few days and I go, Oh, you're going to go to the outspoken show. And he goes, Oh, Yeah, yeah. Oh, you know about hardcore? And I'm like, oh, yeah, yeah. I like a lot of early hardcore. I go, some of the newer stuff, I go, it's not really my thing, but I go, I keep up on it. Because I remember when I heard Outspoken, I was like, fuck, this is metal. This is metal. It's not bad. But this, God, this isn't what I, wow, hardcore's really developed, you know, into a heavy thing. And I go, yeah, I go on more into like the East Coast stuff, like Antidote, Minor Threat. And he goes, Minor Threat, isn't that like a smelly punk band? And I just, I just in my head, I just put my hand on my head. I was like, oh, God. You don't know who Minor Threat is. Everything that you listen to wouldn't exist if it wouldn't be for Minor Threat. You
SPEAKER_07:got to try to live your life not having that record store clerk mentality of being like, oh, I can't believe you don't know that. But some things, come on. Minor Threat, come on. Yeah, exactly. The last thing I wanted to ask you about, Ron, was like, just the transition from the big shows going from like fenders to the country club. Like that seems like kind of drastic, right? Um, it's a change of, of neighborhood, you know, even though it's probably what, 25 miles, 30 miles, something like that. But like, it's a way different part of town. Does a crowd change? How does like that affect things?
SPEAKER_04:Um, man, those shows were, were, were great and wild. Um, but you know, it, it really, the reason why they started happening at the country club, because there, because there was no place, there was no, you know, there was no place else to do them and they would do it. And, um, you know, I remember going to show the C shows there that would be packed and crazy. And I was always like, I would, I would always be stoked when like, you would see like a show where like, is it show really big enough? Like say when killing time came out the first time and they played there or, or, um, God, I think that, yeah, when Carrie Nation played there and going, God, I hope people show up. God, I hope people show up because I want my friends to do well. And then you'd go and it was packed. And it really was. And that was kind of like, that was kind of peak, like second generation moment because the big bands were instead and stuff like that. And I remember that was the show that I saw, you know, when the Uniformed Choice players played was when they had the long hair. And they were busting out the new songs and people were bumming and just waiting for the hard, like most of the audience was bumming. I was just curious. And it was just weird to see. But those shows happening there was just out of necessity. And they were gonna do it. They were willing to do it. And as long as people showed up, there was going to be shows there, you know, so you would see, I got, I saw bad brains to play there on the quickness tour. Yeah. Killing time played there. Um, and there was shows that, that tanked too. I remember, I remember playing a show with a band that I was in after I had quit final conflict. Um, and the lineup was poison idea. And this was the field of darkness era, like feel the darkness had just come out. It was poison idea. The Melvins, the dwarves, um, And the chemical people in my band that I was in at the time, shocking truth opened up and there was maybe 200 people there in a room. How big all that room held 800 people. Okay. And it had a balcony, you know, like it was, it was good sized. Um, Most people, if they've seen the movie Boogie Nights, the opening scene where they're in the discotheque, that is the inside of the country club in Reseda. They had put a disco floor in it, but that whole space, the seating and everything, that was the country club.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, and there's videos all over YouTube of like Bad Religion. There's an AF video. So yeah, people can check it. We should dig in maybe next time and go into like the early 90s because that might be even more dead, like right before– Right before punk breaks, right? With like the Green Day and the Offspring stuff.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. I mean, all it really was, I mean, that was really like hardcore was really keeping things afloat at that time. Punk was very, very underground. It was pretty much like rehearsal room. Well, at least punk that I would consider punk was like rehearsal room shows and GBH would come to town and maybe 150 to 200 would show up.
SPEAKER_07:right but then then all this generation of hardcore kind of like goes away in 91 you know so like that's a weird thing you know well let's get into it next time ron this was this was very informative i never thought about um you know some punk bands transitioning to kind of playing alternative just because they were playing in bars more like that's that's like really fucking good insight this is like i don't know this is what i love the most about the pod because like I may be 44 now, but I'm still a moron, and I'm learning all the time, so that's what's up.
SPEAKER_04:You're not that dumb.
SPEAKER_07:You're right. You were right the first time. It slipped out. I appreciate
SPEAKER_04:that. People don't consider it. They forget how young we were when we did this. I was 19 years old when we recorded Ashes to Ashes. I was a child. And it's one of the things like when someone sends me the link of like an old show, we played at fenders. I seriously, I might watch a few seconds of it just to see like, Oh wow. We were pretty tight. We were, man, we were tight then, but I don't watch the whole thing. And I, especially when it comes into the song breaks, I don't, I don't want to hear myself talk because it's embarrassing. It's like, you're 19 years old. You don't know shit about life. And here you're talking about, you know, you've got it all figured out on stage, you know, and it's embarrassing.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah, for sure. But at least you stabbed on like good topics. Let me just wrap. I'm going to read the, uh, the review for, uh, ashes to ashes. This is from MRR. Uh, cause it's a pretty good review. It's, it's from MRR 57, 1988 final conflict, ashes, ashes LP along the lines of crucifix final conflict are carrying on a tradition of politically aware, hardcore, uh, Very strong musically and politically. They don't hold back. And in an all too hedonistic and conservative environment like Orange County, it's no small feat to maintain one's values and drive. They do. From Tim Yohannan too, dude. That's a pretty fucking sick review.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah. Because he was always the guy that could like give you a compliment and then burn you. And he would do it a lot. I totally forgot about that review. Like, wow. Cause Pusshead couldn't do it. Right. Pusshead couldn't review his own record. He reviewed our demo and that's how we connected with him and said, do you want to put out a record with us with me? And I'm like, Oh yeah. You know? So yeah. To have Tim say that it really, wow. Like, yeah, that's really cool. Like, Because, again, we were like kids. Jeff was the oldest. He was 21, you know, at the time. And I was 19. Warren was 19. Yeah. Actually, I was 18 when I joined. But by the time we did that, I was 19. We were just kids.
SPEAKER_07:That rules so hard. Yeah. Hey, thanks so much, Ron, for taking the time and doing this. We got to do it again. Love to. Thank you so much, Zach.
SPEAKER_05:But you know what? There's things called fun facts and then unfun facts. Fun facts and then unfun
SPEAKER_08:facts.
SPEAKER_01:You know, going to college in Boston... And I remember going to see Bullet La Volta and my friend being like, you know, the singer Yucky drew the Zero Boys cover. And I'm like, that fucking dude, you know, because they had like long hair and like wearing no T-shirt in November type dudes, you know. And that tripped me out. But I had no internet at the time in the early 90s to fact check that. And I feel like. You know, as I often do when I start dicking around trying to answer trivia for my youth, I was like, whoa, that dude's real name is Kurt Davis, and he did draw that.
SPEAKER_07:All right, we got Kurt Davis, a.k.a. Yucky. What's up, dude?
SPEAKER_00:Hey, how's it going?
SPEAKER_07:What is going on? When did you get into punk?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I'm from Indiana. And right around... Well, still, you know, I was a huge music fan already. And all through high school and everything. And I used to buy all the publications and everything like that. And I was aware of the Ramones and the New York Dolls and shit like that. And I was a Bowie fan. And... You know, I was into, like, Eno and some strange musics and stuff. And I used to go to all the concerts, you know, in Southern rock, whatever, anything. I was just a huge music fan, consumer. But I always felt like, you know, the music that I enjoyed in high school and junior high was always out of reach. And I started reading about the Ramones, and then... The Sex Pistols were in the news. And I graduated high school in 1978. And the Sex Pistols were supposed to tour. They did America that summer. So they were in the news. And I was intrigued by the whole punk rock thing, although I hadn't really heard any of it because Indiana radio didn't play any of it, really. Although I had heard Watching the Detectives by Elvis Costello because our FM station did play that. And I liked that song. But the Sex Pistols coming over to America was the big thing that sort of kicked it into gear for me. That summer, after I graduated from high school, I bought Nevermind the Bollocks, here's the Sex Pistols. And it blew my mind. And so I never looked back. At that point, I was going to, I was working at a grocery store. And every Friday, payday, I would go to the record store and snatch up the punk rock records i'd get two or three of them at a time so i was buying all the early like the the first damned album and basically anything that punk rock to me i was on it stragglers and all this stuff so that's kind of what turned me on to it in 1978
SPEAKER_07:that's so sick yeah how did you get the nickname yucky
SPEAKER_00:me and a couple of friends that hung out together uh we There was Sid Vicious and Johnny Rotten and all these names. We just decided to come up with our own punk rock names for ourselves. I tried a couple out. I first started out as Zy Goat. I had like a an artificial band. This was before I was ever in any kind of band or anything, but the, the fantasy band in my mind was Zygote was the lead singer for the Hydra fucks, which was P H U X. And, uh, so, you know, then I, then I tried out Paul mall was cigarettes, you know, P A U L mall, M A U L. And, uh, that didn't stick, but then, you know, I don't know. Then, um, I came up with yucky guy. I just, you know, I don't know. It just said I had a good ring to it.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, that's a sick name. So you were living in Indiana and you were friends with the Zero Boys, and that's how you ended up hooking up with them to draw the cover for Vicious Circle.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I was from Anderson, Indiana, which is about 30 miles north of Indianapolis. So I was going to Indianapolis to see shows and concerts and stuff like that. And my girlfriend at the time and I, we were in We got tickets to go see Blondie in Indianapolis. This was like, yeah, like 1979. And there was some cat in the line in front of us. We struck up a conversation with him. His name was Marvin. And he was the manager of Indianapolis' punk rock band that was called the Latex Novelties. So Marvin sort of ushered me into the whole scene there. I became friends with him. And he introduced me actually that day to Tufte, who ended up being in the Zero Boys later, their bass player. He was one of the guitar players in Latex Novelties at the time. So I met him that day. And as time went on, I was going to Indianapolis a lot. And then a scene started springing up around this club called Crazy Al's. And I used to go see Latex Novelties play all the time. Then there were some various characters floating around, punk rock guys and stuff like that, and girls. And there was a vintage clothing store called Modern Times. And the woman there, the proprietress there, her name was Julie. There was sort of like a little scene. It was a couple doors down from Crazy House, which was the nightclub. At that time, I was underage, but I would just sneak in and watch. They started to recognize my face, so I started not getting carded because they knew who I was. But anyway, one time the Latex Novelties played, and in between sets, they had a new band come on to play like a short set, like a three-song set. And it was the Zero Boys, who were just starting out with their original bass player, Jeff. They came out and they did two original songs, and they covered a damned song. I think they did like... They did like Stab Your Back or one of the short, fast, damned songs from the first album. And so I was immediately like, who are these guys? These guys are the real deal. And that was kind of like Latex Novelties was a really significant, important band in Indiana punk rock, but they were mostly like a cover band, and they would mix in original songs every now and then. And they were sort of like the kind of guys that dressed up in punk rock clothing, you know, like... A lot of pink and black and some leather pants and whatever. They looked punk and skinny ties and the wraparound glasses and spiky hair. But Zero Boys were more sort of street level. They weren't playing dress up. It was more like the regular clothing. This was before hardcore was happening. You know what I mean? It became more like a lifestyle rather than something that you dress up on the weekends. So they were more like the real deal. So I gravitated towards them. And me and my friends in Anderson formed a band. They already had a band, a couple of guys there that I hung out with. And that band was called The Geeks. And then The Geeks broke up. And then me and a couple of those guys formed a band called called The Repellents. And The Repellents and The Zero Boys used to play shows together. So when The Zero Boys decided to go into the studio, by that time they had Tufty and they had been playing around for a little while. So they knew that I did artwork. I had done like an advertisement for Modern Times. I'd drawn an ad for them once for one of the local publications. And so when it came time for The Zero Boys to release their record, they asked if I had any artwork. And I was like, oh, yeah, you know, I've got a sketchbook. And they at least threw the sketchbook that I had and they found that picture. And they decided that they wanted to use that picture. And I said, sure. And I said, I don't want any money or anything, but I would like to get the original back. And so they decided to use it. And so it was just a sketch. It was a picture that I had in my sketchbook.
SPEAKER_07:And then did you have anything to do with like the art direction, like having it be like that bright yellow? And how do you feel about that?
SPEAKER_00:I thought it looked great. It was, you know, it was fucking awesome. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:If you're just drawing like a, like a black and white thing, it's a, it's a wild idea to have that be the background. Like it really makes the thing pop.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That was just their choice. I mean, I don't know who actually did whose choice that was. And I didn't do the lettering on the cover either. They already had that. I just supplied the drawing and my picture appears a couple of times on the inner sleeve as well.
SPEAKER_07:what was the scene like then in, in your town and in, uh, Indianapolis in like, I guess we should say like before and after like this record comes out. So like 81 to 83, what's going on.
SPEAKER_00:It was pretty clear. Like latex novelties were drawing pretty well. Um, you know, a regular crew, uh, of maybe around like anywhere from like 50 to a hundred people, uh, and the crowds would dance, you know, people, it was, it was quite a reaction to, you know, Indiana was sort of known for its, its, its cover bands and its bar bands and stuff like that. So it was pretty unusual to have a punk rock scene sort of springing up around, you know, at the end of the, at the end of the seventies and then into the eighties, you know, things started shifting, like I said, you know, to like a more lifestyle thing. So the scene sort of, continued to grow more bands started forming and you know Indianapolis and Bloomington they're not that far apart but they seemed kind of distant at the time Bloomington had some really good bands they had the Panics and Dow Jones and the Industrials and those bands would come play every once in a while although I never saw the Panics at the time they were great there was a record that came out called the red snirts. That was like a compilation. And then, but in my hometown and Anderson, the geeks broke up. And then between the geeks and the repellents, which is the band that I've joined in, there was a band called experts. And that was X dash S P U R T Z. And I sort of, ostensibly managed them, which meant basically like I was using my Indianapolis connections to get them a couple of gigs in Indianapolis at the time. So things were sort of coming together with other bands sort of going to Indianapolis around the scene and kind of growing, uh, the scene, although it never got really much bigger than around a hundred and 125 people really at that, at that time. And then Paul Mayhern from the zero boys started, uh, putting on he started putting on shows and he started getting bands together for the master tape the first compilation of the master tape are you familiar with those records
SPEAKER_07:yeah it's a pretty significant compilation for the people listening uh came out in 1982 had the zero boys had articles of faith had your band the repellents had the fus had d crews and so uh
SPEAKER_00:yeah yeah So that was, you know, Paul started working on, once he started making those connections that were extending a little further with the, you know, the punk bands that were coming up, he was bringing some of those bands into town. And we were having a hard time sort of finding places for all ages shows to happen. So they were kind of kicking around. They did some at Modern Times and they would do like matinees at Modern Times. and there were bands in cincinnati there was a place called the jockey club which was in newport kentucky which was just over the bridge from cincinnati ohio the repellents had a had a cincinnati connection through our bass player who was from cincinnati and i met her there and she moved to anderson and we that's when we formed the repellent so there was like a you know there was there were connections going on we also used to go to cincinnati to see the kind of the bigger touring acts that didn't come through indianapolis bands like the stranglers and iggy pop 999 um Gang of Four, you know, bands that were coming from overseas that were a little bit bigger weren't coming to Anderson. So there was a need for places to play at the time, and the Jockey Club sort of answered that. And a lot of local bands from the Cincinnati area and the Indiana area started, and Kentucky too, started playing at the Jockey Club. And it just kind of grew you know a little bit like that kind of organically and then we kicked around some different places in uh Indianapolis. We had some good shows. I mean, Whipping Boy came through. That was pretty awesome. GBH came and played. Decroitsen came and played. That was awesome. But, you know, we were getting a little more of an underage crowd at that point. And some skateboarders started showing up, and they were forming bands. Dudes that went on to form the band Honor Roll once they moved to Richmond, Virginia, they formed Honor Roll later. They were the ones that were also on the master tape. They were like the youngest kids. And so there were a few kids kicking around. But there were never big crowds in Indianapolis all through the 80s. Then, you know, I moved out of Indiana in 1984. And, yeah, so I got out of there because it started seeming a bit like– the same people all the time. And it just didn't, it wasn't really growing. It didn't feel robust, you know?
SPEAKER_07:And you ended up in Boston.
SPEAKER_00:Well, we took a detour. So I took some time off. Maybe I left in 85. I take that back in 1984. So the repellents broke up in like 83 or 84. I moved to Muncie, Indiana and eventually, and then I met, I met my, who's my wife now, but at that point, a girl that was a Ball State student. We lived together there. And when she graduated from college, she decided that she didn't want to get a job in Indiana because we would be stuck there. We hated Indiana. Indiana was really provincial, you know, and politically very conservative. And just like, you know, the auto industry was shutting down. Ronald Reagan was like taking his toll on middle America. And in bad ways so it was time to get the fuck out and um and it just didn't feel like the scene was thriving although we we had a consistent crowd of kind of the same people and they were certain and then in you know muncie at the time also had a place coming up called the no bar and grill and um that was an all ages joint and that was pretty cool well they got big black in there naked ray gun played there and some of the you know the bands that were touring at that time were coming through there and playing in Muncie. So No Bar didn't last too long. I think it lasted about four years, maybe three or four years, and then it closed. But I was gone by the time it closed. But we just decided to get out of Indiana because it was just not, you know, I never felt like I belonged there. So my girlfriend and I moved. We couldn't afford to move right to Boston or California. We were considering going to San Francisco or Boston. And we just decided to go to– my mother was living in Jackson, Mississippi. She said, why don't you guys come down here and get jobs and save up some money and then go where you want? So we were in Jackson, Mississippi for a year from 1985 to 1986. And then we moved to Boston in 1986. Yeah,
SPEAKER_07:and do you stay in to punk your whole life?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, when we were in Jackson, Mississippi, there was a place there called WC Dons and I saw tons of great bands there. There was a band called plan nine that used to play there all the time. And we saw the descendants there in this little club. WC Dons was like, it was small. It was like a, it was a, a mobile home that had been converted into, it had a bar in it and a place for bands to play. And, uh, Yeah, the Descendants played there a couple of times and Corrosion of Conformity played there and Aggression played there from California. And I saw Alex Chilton there and Tav Falco and the Panther Burns. I mean, you know, so it was a pretty cool scene while we were there. And then once I came to Boston, then it was like, you know, there were tons of bands here. It was very well known for having a supportive local scene. So that was one of the reasons we moved here.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, going back to Mississippi, what was it like seeing Aggression in Mississippi in 1986? What was that show like?
SPEAKER_00:Mississippi was weird because I'd never been someplace... I mean, first of all, the pace is so much slower there. You don't really think about it until you're in it, you know what I mean? So the pace of life there is kind of slower and more sluggish and... It's hotter and whatever. And then racism is more prevalent and you're aware of it on a kind of a, and I, I didn't even know, you know, being from Indiana where there were a lot of rednecks and hicks and stuff like that, a lot of farmers, a lot of, you know, 4-H kind of stuff going on, a lot of farms and a lot of livestock. I wasn't aware of. until I went to Mississippi that I was a Yankee where I was reminded like every fucking day, it was kind of weird. It was weird, but we met some, we met some really great people there though. I mean, like I said, the scene in the club that we went to, there were, there were some really talented local bands and a lot of cool, really nice, cool people. So, um, but there was a lot of boredom, you know, there wasn't a lot to do, you know, aside from the shows that came through, there wasn't, it was really boring. So, um, Myself, my girlfriend, and some of our friends decided to form our own little aggregation. I don't know if I'd call it quite a band. I guess you would. It was called the P-Holes. And we played like... railroad spikes and pieces of metal and we had a guitar player but there were no drums i played like buckets and sheets of aluminum and shit like that and we opened up for aggression that's why i bring all this up so we opened up the aggression you know and the guys from aggression were really cool but you know it was but it was again you know like indiana it was a very limited very small scene the same people came out all the time and it wasn't really you know it wasn't It wasn't a big scene at all, but a lot of bands came through and played there. And so we benefited from seeing them. I think seeing COC there was probably the most intense because they were so freaking loud and so aggressive and blasting hardcore. And in that little room, it was like really intense. It was cool.
SPEAKER_07:I'm trying to think of other Mississippi bands that put out records I know of. There was Ed Nasty and the Dopeheads. He put out something in
SPEAKER_00:17. Ed Nasty was a friend of mine, mine and my wife's. We met him. He actually was a really sweet guy. Ed ran a jukebox company. He supplied jukeboxes for bars and places around the Jackson, Mississippi area. He was one of the people on the scene. He's very soft-spoken. You never would picture him as being the guy that put that record out because he's just so unassuming. He was super sweet, super nice guy. He would always be at the shows. We hung out with him a lot. He's one of the guys we met there. He gave me some of those records. I have that record.
SPEAKER_07:Super sick.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, so what's been up the last 40 years, musically and artistically?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I've continued to draw and paint through the years and play music. When I came to Boston, I joined a band, and we turned into a band called Bullet La Volta. And Bullet La Volta, which I became the lead singer, my drums got broken in transit to Boston because I didn't I didn't have cases for them. So my drums got split. So I was looking for something to do, and I answered a flyer, which coincidentally listed the Zero Boys as one of their influences. And I told them I did the album cover art for that. So I had some credibility going into the game, but I had never sung in a band before. But those guys had songs, and I had lyrics, so we just put them together. And La Volta kind of took off really quick. I was here... We moved here in 86. La Volta formed in 87. And by the next year, we were touring and stuff. So that took off pretty fast. We ended up getting signed to RCA and putting out some records and got signed to Tang Records, the local hardcore label. We put out a couple of records on Tang. And whatever. That band was around for about five years. And then we broke up. And then I was in a band called Customized Records. I was the drummer for that band with Peter Prescott from Mission of Burma and a couple other dudes from local bands around way here. Customized went, I was in that band for about four years and we put out a couple of records on Matador. Then shortly thereafter, I was in a band called the Conks, which was like a garage punk band and I was playing drums and singing in that band. And we were together for 12 years, so we did a lot. We played a lot, and we put out a record on Bomp and played a lot of shows. We would go to New York pretty frequently. We had sort of an exchange going with some of the bands in New York, so we would switch gigs. And there was a local scene here going on at a club called the Abbey Lounge that was really cool. I can't remember how long the Abbey lasted, but... That was awesome. But anyway, the Conks were together for about 12 years, and we broke up in 2011. And then at that point, I was kind of done playing. I decided to retire. I was on a hiatus. And then a few years later, let's see, well, quite a few years later, like almost 10 years later, I got a friend of mine named Margaret Garrett to who was the guitar player for a two-piece blues punk band called Mr. Airplane Man around town. She and Tara McManus, who was the drummer, were a two-piece punk garage blues band. And the Conks used to play with them all the time. We were sort of like brother and sister bands. And we played with them a lot. And Margaret Mr. Airplane Man broke up, and Margaret was asked if I would play drums in a new thing she was trying to put together with her boyfriend, who's playing bass. And so that got me out of retirement, because I couldn't say no. I knew that if I did, I would regret it. Because I'm a big fan of Margaret's, and I always have been. So I wanted to play with her. So I came back out, and I'm playing drums now in her band. We're called Daughter of the Vine. It's sort of a psych rock band. And we just actually just uploaded our latest album on Spotify a week ago.
SPEAKER_02:Sick.
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah, Daughter of the Vine, Mystic Valley Parkway is up on Spotify now. And Bandcamp, if people want to pay for it.
SPEAKER_07:Oh, yeah. Well, Kurt Davis, a.k.a. Yucky, thanks so much for taking the time. Everyone check out Daughter of the Vine. on Spotify or drop your coin, dude. Buy it on Bandcamp. Help a brother out. You know what I'm saying? Dude, thanks so much for taking the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right on. No problem. Can I ask you a couple of questions, Zach?
SPEAKER_07:Sure. Hopefully I can answer them accurately.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can. It's personal stuff. How did you get into punk and how long have you been into it?
SPEAKER_07:Oh, I grew up in Oxnard and I got into punk maybe in 93 a friend let me uh the bad religion suffer tape and uh that was it dude you know i when i was in elementary school i loved butt rock a lot like motley crew and all that shit and then i got you know and then that kind of progresses metallica then slayer then death metal you know and then uh it was wild hearing suffer it was like this combination to me in my my stupid young head where it's like wow this is like the intensity of Slayer mashed up with like the, the melody of poison. You know what I mean? It was like, I couldn't believe that there could be something so fast and so melodic at the same time. And it just kind of like took off from there. Also like, you know, being from the beach in Southern California, like punk is always around. It's not like a, a strange thing to get into. Right. It's like surf and the skate culture. So yeah, it just kind of went from there. And then, I got into a lot of like the fat records and the epitaph stuff when punk blew up in like 94, you know? And then by the time I was 16, I was just so sick of like dumb lyrics. Like I always point to, uh, there's a lag wagon lyric that says, look at my cat. Why can't I live like that? And that was kind of like my snapping point. I was like, I got to find something more serious, you know? And that's kind of, I took the turn and got more into hardcore stuff. And never took the foot off the gas. I'm 44 now.
SPEAKER_00:I'm 63.
SPEAKER_07:Well, respect.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, I remember the first time. Actually, you know, the first time that I heard Metallica, Paul Mayhern played them for me.
SPEAKER_02:Super
SPEAKER_00:cool. I heard Whiplash. Yeah. That Whiplash EP, which I still have, actually. It's fucking awesome.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, he was the first one to play Metallica for me. And I think he was the first one to play the Bad Brains for me, too.
SPEAKER_07:Well,
SPEAKER_00:you know, I mean, the thing is, it's like I had a lot of. I had a lot of cool people around me that were turning me on to a lot of great shit. You know, it's like I was sort of, you know, being this guy from Anderson, Indiana, just sort of like looking around for connections. You know, once you make those connections and everything sort of starts clicking into place, it's pretty cool the way it works out. I like it.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah, I mean, the community of the thing is definitely one of the perks, right? You meet lifetime friends. And I have friends from, you know, I played in bands and toured in the early 2000s and am still in touch with plenty of the people that I met then. So it's cool to have a network of friends all over the country and also the world, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely. It definitely feels like It feels like, you know, I don't necessarily believe in fate. I don't necessarily not believe in it. But sometimes it feels like the hand of fate is at work, you know, when you're sort of traveling down a path looking for yourself at a particular age when you're trying to find something. You know, we're looking to identify with people. We're looking to identify ourselves and find out who we are and what our values are and what we, you know, at what point we discover something and awaken ourselves to our way of thinking and becoming who we are, you know, it's pretty interesting how it unfolds.
SPEAKER_07:Sure. Well, I mean, if you're putting yourself out there, you know, you, you're more likely to receive things in return, right? You're out taking the risk and, you know,
SPEAKER_09:exactly.
SPEAKER_07:Right. And positivity can come, right. And we, we just, each of us have to figure out how we deal with those things. You know, like, do we, can we repel the negativity? Is it worth it to like get that positivity, you know? And we just each have to deal with that in our own way. But yeah, I mean, you know, as people that decide to like play in bands or whatever the fuck, like, I mean, that's kind of the move, right? You decide to put yourself out there for better or for worse and you got to take both of it.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Well, you know, I think it's important to, I think it, I think it often, you know, I mean, the cool thing about punk for me was that it was, it was an organic thing. thing that was created by the kids you know it was it wasn't something that was created in some corporate boardroom that was like handed down to us and i think like now if you look at the way that technology has segregated everybody you're you're just not exposed to you know you stay in your own little worlds you know it you you may never be exposed to a wider range of music to find out what it is if you stay in the pocket that is programmed for you. And I think what happens is that people have this sort of stasis where now that technology has got us on our couch watching Netflix and playing video games with people around the world, there's less impetus and there's more competition for your time to keep you in place. And people aren't going out and exploring the way that they used to, and things are more regimented now. And I think people, I think young people, a lot of young people have lost the concept of what the idea of selling out even means. You know, it has been really, it's been really cemented in our culture that you're posing for selfies and putting yourself out there in this really superficial, shallow kind of way that doesn't always encourage with other people. It's all about this sort of selfish sort of, you know, way of portraying yourself to try to brand yourself and all this crap. You know, punk rock got it right. You should be suspicious of the authority figures. You should be suspicious of corporate culture trying to tell you what to do. You should be aware and suspicious of your surroundings and them trying to keep you in your place. You know, like all those things, punk rock got those things right. Although, you know, Looking at the landscape now, it sort of feels like the corporate culture has won because we've all been driven. All the rock clubs are closing. It's harder and harder to find places for the bands to play. And then there's tons of people that don't even like rock music or whatever. I think once you're exposed to it, especially if you're exposed to live music, that's created right in front of you, then there's a switch that flips in people. But if you're not exposed to that, you don't have that experience, you know, then you're not aware that that whole thing exists. I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say, but I just think punk rock got it right. You know, question authority and, and stand up for your rights. You know, that kind of shit really holds up.
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. And the feeling of being in the room, right? Like you can, you can never take away that feeling of like, the kick drum in your chest the first time. Right. Or like that guitar, like hitting a chord and it being like a little too loud for you and being like, Oh, this is a crazy feeling, you know?
SPEAKER_00:That's right. And it's communal. We all experience this thing together. You know, you transcend the, the, uh, the usual, the regular, you, everybody in that room is going on a journey together. And, you know, it's a, it's a communion and we all take off and we all experience it. And then, and then you walk out into the real world and you're like, why can't, why can't the world be fucking awesome all the time? You know?
SPEAKER_07:Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, that's well said. That's well said. Hey, Yucky, thanks so much for taking the time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Thanks for reaching out, Zach. Peace!